Why the hell would you permanently alter a child via surgery so young?
That’s not typically what happens. You’ve swallowed the bullshit.
Gender affirming care for children is typically reversible, such as changing clothing, changing hair, puberty blockers (which can be safely stopped), etc. You opened your mouth and immediately proved that you haven’t really tried to understand the situation.
To my understanding, there hasn’t been enough evidence to prove that either way. That’s the problem, they are essentially being experimented on and abusing a parent’s fear to do it. Then some states are now forcing some of these practices into law which I know can have severe side effects.
To be clear, I’m saying one side is completely bad is what I’m mainly calling out here. There isn’t “The bad side”, there’s extremes that have gone too far.
I am transgender. Have been my whole life, but I realized it at 12. Socially transitioned at 14, physically transitioned at 16 (because you can’t physically transition before then because doctors, shockingly 😲, fuckin’ know what they’re doing). The things I struggled with, mentally, before i began to transition at all, caused me to make attempts on my own life. Lots of teens succeed, because people won’t allow them fucking find peace in their own bodies. Teens. Children. Killing themselves. Because of stupid rehtorics like the one you’ve just spouted. Fuck off with that same old bullshit paranoia and fear mongering.
I spent 10+ years trying to kill myself as a child because who I was was never accepted. By 17 I had an end (pun intended) goal to stop being alive at my 18th birthday.
I’m 35 now and literally have no idea what I’m doing with my life or any real goals because I never planned to be alive this long. I’ve been faking it since I passed my 18th birthday.
But… You just said you were physically altered you when you are still considered a child. What would have been the issue until waiting until you are considered an adult?
While you may possibly be an exception, the first linked video gives counter points directly relating to what you are saying right now.
I think there was another comment that presented what most likely happened a little clearer and made much more sense. I think I can agree with. It mentioned breast reduction surgery which is already done on people 16 years old not relating to trans stuff. If that’s the case, it makes much more sense to me.
I was mostly pointing out the odd fact that the original argument was that there wasn’t surgery done on minors and then proceeded to support it by saying surgery was done on them while they were a minor.
While I understand the suicide aspect, there are alternatives to managing those kinds of issues that don’t involve surgery.
This sounds a lot like recommending treating a kids broken leg exclusively with painkillers until they are adults because they might regret the treatment. While it technically might remove the most painful symptoms, it will let the problem get harder and harder to do anything about while the risk of regret for treatment is exceptionally low.
The amount of children that grow up to realize they weren’t actually trans is miniscule while the amount that, when not supported, attempt and sometimes succeed suicide is staggering. Social and later possibly medically assisted transition is the single most effective way to prevent these suicides that we know of. Keeping it from being available to children who need it, is to accept more of them will die.
I believe you want to do good, but i think you have been misinformed. Gender affirming care is on of the medical procedures with the lowest regret rate. Knee surgeries are many times more likely to be regretted. If the examples of regret should keep children from the procedure, we would have to stop giving children surgeries at all and stop many other procedures as well to stay consistent.
Someone else in the comment section somewhere gave some links that I can go over relating specifically to what you’re saying.
I’m taking a look over them to help form an opinion. Haven’t look at enough to really say any more on the matter yet. Although, I really don’t think that some of the concerns brought up on the other side is completely off-base either.
It’s been less than an hour since posting and both videos are over an hour. It seems like you didn’t take the time to listen to what I was trying to show.
That’s fine if you don’t want to take the time, but that seems disingenuous to me since you are posting what you did.
Firstly, you linking Jordan Peterson, who is known to spread negative propaganda about anything that isn’t pro cis-white male privilege and toxic masculinity is so laughable. It proves that you’re drinking the false news koolaid.
Secondly, there are people who regret the surgery for so many reasons including internalized transphobia, peer pressure, botched surgery by incompetent surgeon, etc. It’s VERY hard to get approved for gender affirming surgery. You need your family doctor, psychologist, and at least two other medical professionals to access and sign off on it.
Thirdly, cis-hetero kids have been assigned hormone blockers for many medical reasons and grew up to be adults with perfectly functional endocrine systems.
If you’re going to keep looking at things from a cis-straight perspective, then look at the same medical practices and procedures that are performed on cis-straight kids. You’ll see that they are safe enough to not warrant any of this bullshit fear mongering from idiots like Jordan Peterson.
P.S. Surgery is done on intersex kids all the fucking time to make them conform to the gender binary against the child’s consent and there is much more harm done there than there will ever be for trans kids to get gender affirming care.
P.P.S. Circumcision is also surgery done against the consent of the child, and definitely immoral when done not for religious reasons, and yet it’s still a very common and openly accepted practice in the USA.
And then maybe an interview with someone who regretted their surgery
My understanding is that the regret category is ~1%. I have a few trans friends and none of them have regret. Small sample size, but it’s a realworld selection. I’m curious if you know any trans people?
That’s not typically what happens. You’ve swallowed the bullshit.
Gender affirming care for children is typically reversible, such as changing clothing, changing hair, puberty blockers (which can be safely stopped), etc. You opened your mouth and immediately proved that you haven’t really tried to understand the situation.
To my understanding, there hasn’t been enough evidence to prove that either way. That’s the problem, they are essentially being experimented on and abusing a parent’s fear to do it. Then some states are now forcing some of these practices into law which I know can have severe side effects.
I recommend watching this speech first: https://youtu.be/DWbxIFC0Q2o
And then maybe an interview with someone who regretted their surgery: https://youtu.be/6O3MzPeomqs
To be clear, I’m saying one side is completely bad is what I’m mainly calling out here. There isn’t “The bad side”, there’s extremes that have gone too far.
I am transgender. Have been my whole life, but I realized it at 12. Socially transitioned at 14, physically transitioned at 16 (because you can’t physically transition before then because doctors, shockingly 😲, fuckin’ know what they’re doing). The things I struggled with, mentally, before i began to transition at all, caused me to make attempts on my own life. Lots of teens succeed, because people won’t allow them fucking find peace in their own bodies. Teens. Children. Killing themselves. Because of stupid rehtorics like the one you’ve just spouted. Fuck off with that same old bullshit paranoia and fear mongering.
Amen sibling.
I spent 10+ years trying to kill myself as a child because who I was was never accepted. By 17 I had an end (pun intended) goal to stop being alive at my 18th birthday.
I’m 35 now and literally have no idea what I’m doing with my life or any real goals because I never planned to be alive this long. I’ve been faking it since I passed my 18th birthday.
But… You just said you were physically altered you when you are still considered a child. What would have been the issue until waiting until you are considered an adult?
While you may possibly be an exception, the first linked video gives counter points directly relating to what you are saying right now.
What would have been the issue? How about if they had more attempts on their own life and succeeded?
I prefer for my fellow Lemmy users to stay alive and mentally well.
Plus let’s remember they were working with a doctor who DID make them wait.
I think there was another comment that presented what most likely happened a little clearer and made much more sense. I think I can agree with. It mentioned breast reduction surgery which is already done on people 16 years old not relating to trans stuff. If that’s the case, it makes much more sense to me.
I was mostly pointing out the odd fact that the original argument was that there wasn’t surgery done on minors and then proceeded to support it by saying surgery was done on them while they were a minor.
While I understand the suicide aspect, there are alternatives to managing those kinds of issues that don’t involve surgery.
Surgery was not done on me as a minor. I was put on HRT as a minor. I could not, LEGALLY, get any kind of surgery before I was an adult.
16 is considered an adult on your country?
This sounds a lot like recommending treating a kids broken leg exclusively with painkillers until they are adults because they might regret the treatment. While it technically might remove the most painful symptoms, it will let the problem get harder and harder to do anything about while the risk of regret for treatment is exceptionally low.
The amount of children that grow up to realize they weren’t actually trans is miniscule while the amount that, when not supported, attempt and sometimes succeed suicide is staggering. Social and later possibly medically assisted transition is the single most effective way to prevent these suicides that we know of. Keeping it from being available to children who need it, is to accept more of them will die.
I believe you want to do good, but i think you have been misinformed. Gender affirming care is on of the medical procedures with the lowest regret rate. Knee surgeries are many times more likely to be regretted. If the examples of regret should keep children from the procedure, we would have to stop giving children surgeries at all and stop many other procedures as well to stay consistent.
Someone else in the comment section somewhere gave some links that I can go over relating specifically to what you’re saying.
I’m taking a look over them to help form an opinion. Haven’t look at enough to really say any more on the matter yet. Although, I really don’t think that some of the concerns brought up on the other side is completely off-base either.
‘Both sides’. Someone’s defending evil bs, and it’s not me.
It’s been less than an hour since posting and both videos are over an hour. It seems like you didn’t take the time to listen to what I was trying to show.
That’s fine if you don’t want to take the time, but that seems disingenuous to me since you are posting what you did.
I don’t need to watch your propaganda to know the right is evil. It is, and nothing you can say will change that.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/DWbxIFC0Q2o
https://piped.video/6O3MzPeomqs
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Firstly, you linking Jordan Peterson, who is known to spread negative propaganda about anything that isn’t pro cis-white male privilege and toxic masculinity is so laughable. It proves that you’re drinking the false news koolaid.
Secondly, there are people who regret the surgery for so many reasons including internalized transphobia, peer pressure, botched surgery by incompetent surgeon, etc. It’s VERY hard to get approved for gender affirming surgery. You need your family doctor, psychologist, and at least two other medical professionals to access and sign off on it.
Thirdly, cis-hetero kids have been assigned hormone blockers for many medical reasons and grew up to be adults with perfectly functional endocrine systems.
If you’re going to keep looking at things from a cis-straight perspective, then look at the same medical practices and procedures that are performed on cis-straight kids. You’ll see that they are safe enough to not warrant any of this bullshit fear mongering from idiots like Jordan Peterson.
P.S. Surgery is done on intersex kids all the fucking time to make them conform to the gender binary against the child’s consent and there is much more harm done there than there will ever be for trans kids to get gender affirming care.
P.P.S. Circumcision is also surgery done against the consent of the child, and definitely immoral when done not for religious reasons, and yet it’s still a very common and openly accepted practice in the USA.
My understanding is that the regret category is ~1%. I have a few trans friends and none of them have regret. Small sample size, but it’s a realworld selection. I’m curious if you know any trans people?