Man, I want whatever MiB forget beam they have at Valve. I remember plenty of “trying to screw us over”, starting with rolling out Steam in the first place.
Maybe you had to be there before all the Gaben memes and the digital distribution.
The thing is, the OP’s meme is right, all these arguments always devolve into bashing Valve in a reactionary manner… but man, it’s because the cultish memory holing gets so weird that it’s not about whether Epic is successful or good software or about any other store. Whether you want to or not you end up reality checking the Good Guy Valve myth.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticise Valve. I still strongly disagree with being forced to update a game before I can launch it. Greenlight and Steam Direct were/are consistently a pit of scum and shovelware. I still haven’t forgotten their attempt together with Bethesda to introduce paid mods to the Workshop. I wasn’t around when Steam itself was introduced (we still traded game CDs on the playground at the time), but I understand it was a horrid service and software. Then there’s the matter of actual gambling in Counter-Strike and TF2 and the massive secondary market attached to them that Valve refuse to acknowledge.
Nothing’s ever only one way or the opposite, though. There’s always a spectrum of what a customer is willing to put up with, weighed against what a customer gains by putting up with a company’s behaviour. For putting up with Valve’s bullshit, as a gamer, I get a reliable service, a massive library of games, unparalleled download speed, free cloud storage for saves and settings, content management, community integration, and benefits too numerous to recount. As a Linux gamer, I get all of their work on Proton, on upstream Wine, Gamescope, DXVK and VKD3D, many of which I use even outside gaming, for free.
When Steam’s quasi-monopoly was threatened by the EGS, Valve did not try to lock down developers. The only policy change they enacted was requiring games that are advertised on Steam Steam to actually launch on Steam, after people who preordered Metro Exodus were shafted, in order not to become an advertisement platform for their competition. Then they released publicity videos about the Steam Deck that appealed to Linux enthusiasts, handheld gamers, and right-to-repair advocates. Even as a “DRM platform”, they’ve captured that niche.
I’ve said many times that success is not illegal. I was excited and hopeful when I heard that Steam was getting a competitor with a company backing it that had a chance of challenging the status quo. Epic and the EGS were given the best opportunity anyone was ever going to get and they fumbled it. They alienated their potential customerbase when they poached Metro Exodus and early third-party-exclusive titles, showed that they did not have a solid foundation when Borderlands 3 was launched without the ability to preload, gave us reason to question their security practices when a data scraper was found in the installed application, and drew further criticism when they would only accept indie titles if they were made EGS-exclusive while allowing Cyberpunk 2077 to launch on multiple platforms. Since then, it’s become a haven for AI and NFT shovelware that Valve have rejected based on legal/moral issues.
I will acknowledge that some good came of their actions. Apple was forced to remove their anti-competitive policy that prevented developers from placing links and buttons that directed users to other payment processors. Still, it is the fruit of the poisonous tree: they intentionally broke ToS and had an eighty-page lawsuit and an animated short film prepared, acting like they were the innocent “for the players” party set upon by the evil corporations, rallying children as their uncritical lynch mob.
In conclusion, Valve has done things I dislike, but I have reason to conditionally accept and tolerate them; as I have reason to distrust and dislike Epic and the EGS. My choice whenever possible, though, is GOG, which I didn’t mention as it was not part of the conversation and is mostly doing its own thing.
I rambled too much, and I’m too lazy to proofread, so I hope I make some kind of sense.
And you still missed the fact that yes, it turns out Valve was aggressively locking down developers by forbidding other platforms from competing on price by holding store discoverability hostage. Which may have been illegal, we still have to wait on that particular class action to resolve. And that regulators had to force them to hand out refunds after a lot of the “evil” competition was already doing it.
Look, the fact is these are massive corporations fighting for who gets to milk money from gamers. I have zero need to root for either Fortnite guy or Digital Distribution Inventor Monopoly Haver guy. Steam is undeniably the better software by a mile, but considering their margins I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people to ask them not to do the shitty things they do (and they do do shitty things, as you point out).
I do root for GoG, but let me be perfectly honest here, it’s because they’re the only semi-viable 100% DRM-free option. And even then, you can tell they absolutely hate that they are grandfathered into that branding and increasingly unable to compete because of it. I will have no need to root for Cyberpunk guys the moment they cave and/or are forced to drop that policy.
It’s not about “my billionaire is better than your billionaire”. Epic could gain complete supremacy overnight and my position wouldn’t change.
Which may have been illegal, we still have to wait on that particular class action to resolve.
Can you give me a case number or some other reference? I know of only one class action lawsuit, but that one is concerning the resale of Steam activation codes.
Nah, it’s weird how many people missed that during discovery in that one (the one everybody was saying was irrelevant and vacuous and only about code resellers) emails came out where Steam reps were outright telling devs that either they kept price parity on Steam or they wouldn’t get store placement. Not just resellers, but for Humble and UPlay as well.
It’s nuts how long it took me to find the quotes and documents, by the way. It’s all about how few employees Valve has and that one time Tim Sweeny called them assholes in an email for having a 30% cut and they shared it internally with “Are you mad, bro?”. Barely any specific coverage about the fact that… yeah, Steam will pressure you to never have the game cheaper anywhere else, resale keys or not.
For the record, my position WOULD change if Epic gained total dominance because I want the gaming market to be competitive. Any of these people having a monopoly is a bad thing in my book, so in our reality that’d be Steam.
My publisher once asked me to remove my game from itch.io, saying it was needed to negotiate some deal with valve. I don’t know how much of it was true though. I had set up that itch.io before signing with the publisher.
I mean, most people would say free games are pretty consumer-friendly, but whatever, these goalposts have been moving for ages.
Steam was threatening game devs with pulling them from the store if they undercut Steam prices just last year (see above). They restated that you don’t own your games and that you can’t transfer them to anybody on your death just last year. They rolled out additional revenue share improvements for big publishers in 2018, keeping the worse conditions for smaller games. I personally saw a Steam rep tell a roomful of indie devs that they should be translating their games to Chinese out of pocket or risk not getting as prominent store positioning well within this decade. Steam also keeps selling loot boxes today, which I’ve always been less concerned about, but most people seem to think is a bad thing. That’s extra funny in this context because Epic specifically was shamed into removing them from their games a while ago and severely punished for what was seen as selling those to kids just as Steam was keeping that whole thing in place for CS2. Like I said, would kill for the MiB ray Gaben invented.
Look, I’m not here to say that Valve is a dark empire bent on world domination, but they are a money-printing machine privately owned by a billionaire that sure would like to keep growing his yatch collection. I think Valve has been more successful than anybody else at making their platform software and a lot of their money comes from cutting cost via automation and squeezing captive devs while focusing hard on their user-facing feature set. On the big picture, though (no pun intended) I don’t see that much air between them and any other large publisher or first party platform holder.
To be fair, “it just works” and they haven’t tried to screw us over, which is almost unprecedented.
Man, I want whatever MiB forget beam they have at Valve. I remember plenty of “trying to screw us over”, starting with rolling out Steam in the first place.
Maybe you had to be there before all the Gaben memes and the digital distribution.
The thing is, the OP’s meme is right, all these arguments always devolve into bashing Valve in a reactionary manner… but man, it’s because the cultish memory holing gets so weird that it’s not about whether Epic is successful or good software or about any other store. Whether you want to or not you end up reality checking the Good Guy Valve myth.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticise Valve. I still strongly disagree with being forced to update a game before I can launch it. Greenlight and Steam Direct were/are consistently a pit of scum and shovelware. I still haven’t forgotten their attempt together with Bethesda to introduce paid mods to the Workshop. I wasn’t around when Steam itself was introduced (we still traded game CDs on the playground at the time), but I understand it was a horrid service and software. Then there’s the matter of actual gambling in Counter-Strike and TF2 and the massive secondary market attached to them that Valve refuse to acknowledge.
Nothing’s ever only one way or the opposite, though. There’s always a spectrum of what a customer is willing to put up with, weighed against what a customer gains by putting up with a company’s behaviour. For putting up with Valve’s bullshit, as a gamer, I get a reliable service, a massive library of games, unparalleled download speed, free cloud storage for saves and settings, content management, community integration, and benefits too numerous to recount. As a Linux gamer, I get all of their work on Proton, on upstream Wine, Gamescope, DXVK and VKD3D, many of which I use even outside gaming, for free.
When Steam’s quasi-monopoly was threatened by the EGS, Valve did not try to lock down developers. The only policy change they enacted was requiring games that are advertised on Steam Steam to actually launch on Steam, after people who preordered Metro Exodus were shafted, in order not to become an advertisement platform for their competition. Then they released publicity videos about the Steam Deck that appealed to Linux enthusiasts, handheld gamers, and right-to-repair advocates. Even as a “DRM platform”, they’ve captured that niche.
I’ve said many times that success is not illegal. I was excited and hopeful when I heard that Steam was getting a competitor with a company backing it that had a chance of challenging the status quo. Epic and the EGS were given the best opportunity anyone was ever going to get and they fumbled it. They alienated their potential customerbase when they poached Metro Exodus and early third-party-exclusive titles, showed that they did not have a solid foundation when Borderlands 3 was launched without the ability to preload, gave us reason to question their security practices when a data scraper was found in the installed application, and drew further criticism when they would only accept indie titles if they were made EGS-exclusive while allowing Cyberpunk 2077 to launch on multiple platforms. Since then, it’s become a haven for AI and NFT shovelware that Valve have rejected based on legal/moral issues.
I will acknowledge that some good came of their actions. Apple was forced to remove their anti-competitive policy that prevented developers from placing links and buttons that directed users to other payment processors. Still, it is the fruit of the poisonous tree: they intentionally broke ToS and had an eighty-page lawsuit and an animated short film prepared, acting like they were the innocent “for the players” party set upon by the evil corporations, rallying children as their uncritical lynch mob.
In conclusion, Valve has done things I dislike, but I have reason to conditionally accept and tolerate them; as I have reason to distrust and dislike Epic and the EGS. My choice whenever possible, though, is GOG, which I didn’t mention as it was not part of the conversation and is mostly doing its own thing.
I rambled too much, and I’m too lazy to proofread, so I hope I make some kind of sense.
See, that’s a very even keeled summary.
And you still missed the fact that yes, it turns out Valve was aggressively locking down developers by forbidding other platforms from competing on price by holding store discoverability hostage. Which may have been illegal, we still have to wait on that particular class action to resolve. And that regulators had to force them to hand out refunds after a lot of the “evil” competition was already doing it.
Look, the fact is these are massive corporations fighting for who gets to milk money from gamers. I have zero need to root for either Fortnite guy or Digital Distribution Inventor Monopoly Haver guy. Steam is undeniably the better software by a mile, but considering their margins I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people to ask them not to do the shitty things they do (and they do do shitty things, as you point out).
I do root for GoG, but let me be perfectly honest here, it’s because they’re the only semi-viable 100% DRM-free option. And even then, you can tell they absolutely hate that they are grandfathered into that branding and increasingly unable to compete because of it. I will have no need to root for Cyberpunk guys the moment they cave and/or are forced to drop that policy.
It’s not about “my billionaire is better than your billionaire”. Epic could gain complete supremacy overnight and my position wouldn’t change.
Can you give me a case number or some other reference? I know of only one class action lawsuit, but that one is concerning the resale of Steam activation codes.
Nah, it’s weird how many people missed that during discovery in that one (the one everybody was saying was irrelevant and vacuous and only about code resellers) emails came out where Steam reps were outright telling devs that either they kept price parity on Steam or they wouldn’t get store placement. Not just resellers, but for Humble and UPlay as well.
It’s nuts how long it took me to find the quotes and documents, by the way. It’s all about how few employees Valve has and that one time Tim Sweeny called them assholes in an email for having a 30% cut and they shared it internally with “Are you mad, bro?”. Barely any specific coverage about the fact that… yeah, Steam will pressure you to never have the game cheaper anywhere else, resale keys or not.
https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F778bbf05-f937-4f50-a8a5-90de4185172e_1000x677.jpeg
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bwajZMNAof74mSNRMcTAVlF8m0fplHkA/view
For the record, my position WOULD change if Epic gained total dominance because I want the gaming market to be competitive. Any of these people having a monopoly is a bad thing in my book, so in our reality that’d be Steam.
My publisher once asked me to remove my game from itch.io, saying it was needed to negotiate some deal with valve. I don’t know how much of it was true though. I had set up that itch.io before signing with the publisher.
deleted by creator
I mean, most people would say free games are pretty consumer-friendly, but whatever, these goalposts have been moving for ages.
Steam was threatening game devs with pulling them from the store if they undercut Steam prices just last year (see above). They restated that you don’t own your games and that you can’t transfer them to anybody on your death just last year. They rolled out additional revenue share improvements for big publishers in 2018, keeping the worse conditions for smaller games. I personally saw a Steam rep tell a roomful of indie devs that they should be translating their games to Chinese out of pocket or risk not getting as prominent store positioning well within this decade. Steam also keeps selling loot boxes today, which I’ve always been less concerned about, but most people seem to think is a bad thing. That’s extra funny in this context because Epic specifically was shamed into removing them from their games a while ago and severely punished for what was seen as selling those to kids just as Steam was keeping that whole thing in place for CS2. Like I said, would kill for the MiB ray Gaben invented.
Look, I’m not here to say that Valve is a dark empire bent on world domination, but they are a money-printing machine privately owned by a billionaire that sure would like to keep growing his yatch collection. I think Valve has been more successful than anybody else at making their platform software and a lot of their money comes from cutting cost via automation and squeezing captive devs while focusing hard on their user-facing feature set. On the big picture, though (no pun intended) I don’t see that much air between them and any other large publisher or first party platform holder.