I think what you’re trying to say is they have corporations. And they do, most of those corporations belong to the government and the government retains absolute control over business conducted in all sectors. Hence why any Chinese company that does not follow the will of the government closely enough is shut down. And why all Chinese companies are subject to intense scrutiny and government interference in the event that they do or allow anything the government of China dislikes. When they first allowed corporations to exist they were mostly formed by the government run industries that existed prior to the reforms. They also allowed the creation of corporations to allow Chinese industry to better interact with international capitalist markets. Its why China has seen such an economic shift over the last 40 years. The reforms were made with the intention that once those corporations had benefited from the international capitalist market they would be restructured and reacquired by the Chinese government. This is something they can do at any time theoretically.
Now whether they will renationalize these corporations is up to them. I’m not a fan of China and they probably wouldn’t like me very much. But they are still a one party post soviet communist state. Their government has never changed how it functions. The only thing that has changed is how their market is conducted, allowing international interests to help fund their industries and engage in open trade. And that change is definitely controversial and is described by some as incompatible with socialist thought. But no they are not “as capitalist as any other country these days”.
Sorry bud, that’s just an incredibly ignorant statement. If China was as capitalist as any other country then we’d see the same things happening in China that we see happening in actual capitalist countries. A good comparison would be with India that started roughly in the same place as China after WW2, but took capitalist route.
It’s also pretty funny that you seem to be suggesting is that you know better than 1.4 billion people actually living in China what their political system is. China is a state governed by the Communist party where Marxism-Leninism is the official state ideology. 87.6% of young Chinese identify with Marxism, and the party has 95 million members. I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that these people do in fact understand what socialism is and what kind of a system they have.
Having special economic zones where capitalism is allowed does not make China capitalist any more than having some social services make Canada communist. One key difference with China is that all the essential industry is state owned, and capitalists do not appear to be in charge of the government. However, even Marx argued that capitalism is likely a necessary stage for developing productive resources needed for socialism and communism to be possible.
One simple test to consider is that China doesn’t suffer from regular crashes seen under capitalism. An inherent contradiction within capitalism is that the capitalists always want to cut pay for their employees to minimize the costs, while they also require consumers with enough spending power to consume the commodities they produce. This is why capitalism results in regular economic crashes when wages fall below the point where consumption can keep up with the rate of commodity production. At that point you end up with overproduction and a crash. If China was capitalist then it should be experiencing these kinds of crashes regularly just like actual capitalist nations are in the Western world.
And a related point is that quality of life in China continues to steadily improve and the government is actively working on doing things like eliminating poverty, creating public infrastructure, providing healthcare, housing, food, and education for all citizens. Chinese government practically eliminated poverty, and in fact China is the only place in a world where any meaningful poverty reduction is happening. If we take China out of the equation poverty actually increased in real terms:
China also massively invests in infrastructure. They used more concrete in 3 years than US in all of 20th century, they built 27,000km of high speed rail in a decade. 90% of families in the country own their home giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What’s more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other leans. Real wage (i.e. the wage adjusted for the prices you pay) has gone up 4x in the past 25 years, more than any other country. This is staggering considering it’s the most populous country on the planet. Finally, even NYT admits that people in China enjoy high social mobility unlike people living under capitalism.
These are just a few examples of things that simply do not happen under capitalism.
Sorry bud, they’re as capitalist as any other country these days. They even have billionaires now.
I think what you’re trying to say is they have corporations. And they do, most of those corporations belong to the government and the government retains absolute control over business conducted in all sectors. Hence why any Chinese company that does not follow the will of the government closely enough is shut down. And why all Chinese companies are subject to intense scrutiny and government interference in the event that they do or allow anything the government of China dislikes. When they first allowed corporations to exist they were mostly formed by the government run industries that existed prior to the reforms. They also allowed the creation of corporations to allow Chinese industry to better interact with international capitalist markets. Its why China has seen such an economic shift over the last 40 years. The reforms were made with the intention that once those corporations had benefited from the international capitalist market they would be restructured and reacquired by the Chinese government. This is something they can do at any time theoretically.
Now whether they will renationalize these corporations is up to them. I’m not a fan of China and they probably wouldn’t like me very much. But they are still a one party post soviet communist state. Their government has never changed how it functions. The only thing that has changed is how their market is conducted, allowing international interests to help fund their industries and engage in open trade. And that change is definitely controversial and is described by some as incompatible with socialist thought. But no they are not “as capitalist as any other country these days”.
Sorry bud, that’s just an incredibly ignorant statement. If China was as capitalist as any other country then we’d see the same things happening in China that we see happening in actual capitalist countries. A good comparison would be with India that started roughly in the same place as China after WW2, but took capitalist route.
It’s also pretty funny that you seem to be suggesting is that you know better than 1.4 billion people actually living in China what their political system is. China is a state governed by the Communist party where Marxism-Leninism is the official state ideology. 87.6% of young Chinese identify with Marxism, and the party has 95 million members. I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that these people do in fact understand what socialism is and what kind of a system they have.
Having special economic zones where capitalism is allowed does not make China capitalist any more than having some social services make Canada communist. One key difference with China is that all the essential industry is state owned, and capitalists do not appear to be in charge of the government. However, even Marx argued that capitalism is likely a necessary stage for developing productive resources needed for socialism and communism to be possible.
One simple test to consider is that China doesn’t suffer from regular crashes seen under capitalism. An inherent contradiction within capitalism is that the capitalists always want to cut pay for their employees to minimize the costs, while they also require consumers with enough spending power to consume the commodities they produce. This is why capitalism results in regular economic crashes when wages fall below the point where consumption can keep up with the rate of commodity production. At that point you end up with overproduction and a crash. If China was capitalist then it should be experiencing these kinds of crashes regularly just like actual capitalist nations are in the Western world.
And a related point is that quality of life in China continues to steadily improve and the government is actively working on doing things like eliminating poverty, creating public infrastructure, providing healthcare, housing, food, and education for all citizens. Chinese government practically eliminated poverty, and in fact China is the only place in a world where any meaningful poverty reduction is happening. If we take China out of the equation poverty actually increased in real terms:
China also massively invests in infrastructure. They used more concrete in 3 years than US in all of 20th century, they built 27,000km of high speed rail in a decade. 90% of families in the country own their home giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What’s more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other leans. Real wage (i.e. the wage adjusted for the prices you pay) has gone up 4x in the past 25 years, more than any other country. This is staggering considering it’s the most populous country on the planet. Finally, even NYT admits that people in China enjoy high social mobility unlike people living under capitalism.
These are just a few examples of things that simply do not happen under capitalism.
Highly recommend reading this book to actually educate yourself on how Chinese system actually works instead of regurgitating nonsense https://redletterspp.com/products/the-east-is-still-red
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