Miguel Alvaro claims he endured a horrifying ordeal when he was targeted and physically assaulted by Turkish police solely based on his appearance, being perceived as gay and suspected of planning to participate in the Pride march in Istanbul
Yes, all of them. I will never understand people targeting just Islam for shit like this while literally all abrahamic faiths have the same shit said in different ways in their holy books.
I will never understand people targeting just Islam for shit like this while literally all abrahamic faiths have the same shit said in different ways in their holy books.
Context was removed, so sorry if I got you wrong.
You are right about the books. In practice, however, there are differences. A few countries punish homosexuality with the death penalty, and all of them are Islamic (though the precise historic reasons can vary, I assume, and religion may or may not play a prominent role in that).
Maybe the age difference makes a difference in practice. When we remember how Christianity was practiced 600 years ago …
There was a lot less difference in liberties in majority Islamic countries and the majority Christian countries until the 60s’ and 70s’ when Islamic fundamentalist theocracies got enough popular support to gain power. It is a very complex phenomenon that is largely linked to colonialism and especially de-colonization.
Based purely on books Islam is actually the most advanced of the religious texts. It for example actually grants rights for women that are not found in other Abrahamic religions. Do they actually happen as Quaran and hadiths say? No, they largely don’t. But there is a high level of differences between different Islamic countries and that are not explainable by sects they believe in. For hijab (as clothing) Afghanistan and Turkey are very different from burqa to hijab (headscarf) having been banned for decades.
Current people in power in Islamic countries aren’t there necessarily because of current popular support. Trying to unravel Gordian’s knot of Islam, dictatorship, culture, fundamentalism, colonialism and decolonization is as the name tells pretty impossible., For example, FGM is seen as Islamic practice and while not haram it is not Islamic but cultural one that seems to have at least one center in Kurdisrtan. Only thing prophet Mohammed said about it is that if you have to cut don’t cut so severely. Which by Islamic jurisprudence makes only the cutting severely not practice itself haram. One of the Islamic principles is that if it isn’t explicitly banned it is allowed. Honor violence is a thing. Part of it is largely cultural and how the majority of Islamic countries are honour based societies.
Of course Islam and especially Muslims have a huge amount of issues with social liberties and human rights. But even worst of it, Islamic terrorism, has been a minority in both casualties and attacks in Western countries. In the US in past 50 years majority of attacks have been linked to alt-right and Christian fundamentalism. The majority of attacks by Islamic terrorist organizations happen in Islamic countries which tells us that either governments or inhabitants are not fundamentalist enough for those groups. The rise of the two biggest of past couple of decades, Al Qaida and ISIS/DAESH can be followed to the actions of Western countries. Former because of armament and training because of Cold War and the latter to the power vacuum left by the Iraq war.
Current issues in Turkey are a lot less Islam related than to things like having autocrat and a culture with ultra nationalistic. For example how Ataturk is seen as something that is closing what is haram. Turkey is following especially civil society and oppositional politicians to close degree. The space for advancement in social liberties and human rights is very narrow and they have no issue deporting, jailing or vanishing people (usually just jailing them in black sites). But that does not differ from Russia for example. Erdogan also has no qualms of for example fucking up the economy even more to gain votes. There are different rules for different types of people. If anyone can skirt the rule of law they will. Tax evasion is more assumed than something notable. But one thing I had no issues with was Islam itself. While as foreigner albeit woman I had more leeway but I did not need it. The biggest culture shocks were not Islam but living under autocrat, my and my organizations actions being followed constantly, wide corruption and the absolutely mind boggling one was getting used to people not caring that things are not functional. Currently, the majority of my Turkish friends who have a way out are leaving. Erdogan’s economic decisions for winning elections are already increasing inflation that already was entirely out of hand. You literally had no idea what things would cost tomorrow even before elections. The last earthquake in Turkey destroyed a lot of land that was farmland and with war in Ukraine already causing famine forecast is not great.
The idea all Muslims are homophobic is a dumb generalization. Call it a stigma. Corrupt police exist in Turkey, and not all of them are Muslim. The idea you’re giving that Turkish police have to be Muslim is as racist as their actions were homophobic.
Please don’t be hypocritical. I’m sure anti-theists have some level of respect for religious people.
As I said, i dont respect anyone that is attacking members of the LGBTQ+ community. You said it’s the same? No, we are not attacking, we are asking for respect. As long as you are not giving it, then we are not accepting you.
You must then be ignorant of the weaponised LGBT identity politics that is sometimes used to justify the invasion and murder of Muslim lives in the Middle East by white countries, as well as the fascist shift in Europe against Muslim immigrants.
LGBT people often participate in the rhetoric and are used as a stick for punitive policies in Europe.
Does this mean by extension all LGBT people are responsible for these crimes?
Mosques will never hoist a rainbow flag. It’s a core belief in Islam that homosexuality is wrong. But such a belief should never be used to justify homophobia.
homophobia
/ˌhɒməˈfəʊbɪə,ˌhəʊməˈfəʊbɪə/
noun
dislike of or prejudice against gay people
I’m not homophobic. Just not entirely accepting the idea of homosexuality. Doesn’t mean I get the right to attack people of the LGBT+ community.
Islamic countries give every person, regardless of their involvement in the LGBT community, the right to a fair trial. Corrupt police shouldn’t be the face of such law systems.
Islam is HATING on LGBT community. They dont want us among them.
LGBT is not hating on Islam. I want to live together with Islamics, but I dont want to live together with homophobic people.
You are not accepting the “idea” of homosexuality. Im accepting Islam, but Im not accepting that you dont accept the “idea” of homosexuality. BECAUSE, a society doesn’t work with people not accepting each other.
Im sorry, but you have to accept that your ideals are antique and old fashioned, I dont care what your religion says, human evolves, our minds evolves, a man being together with another man is not damaging anyone.
Im not going to accept that you dont accept the idea of homosexuality, and im going to keep fighting to keep Islam outside Europe as much as I can. Once Islam changes their ideals about homosexuality, they are more than welcome
Search lgbtq mosque on google you lazy twat. Also I think the fact you don’t see muslims doing this that and the other says more about you than muslims. The blind prejudice in these comments makes you seem like idiots.
Have you searched it? There are only a handful IN THE WORLD, and they are constantly being vandalized by other Islamic people, at least the one in berlin
Ah, so the day you see mosques hanging lgbt flags isn’t the day you respect blah blah blah. Stop kidding yourself, face your own prejudice before you start spewing your hate. I fucking hate religion with a passion, but you know what I hate more? Racist and nationalist idiots who are blind to their own prejudice. Homophobia is as much a cancer to the world as is your shitty prejudiced world view. Don’t use other people’s prejudice to exercise your own. Fuck your hate.
Ok. Meanwhile we are discussing this on thread about a tourist that was assaulted and jailed by turkey men. Exactly the same as other attacks towards LGBTQ+ that have happened in all europe by Islamic/muslisms/middle eastern men. Exactly the same as I have been assaulted by these people in germany.
Now how many Islamic people have been attacked by members of the LGBTQ+ community? I will be waiting for your answer.
@Everyone else: Dont let these people guilty you into not wanting these homophobic people around you. Im glad to receive and accept islam, once they have purged homophobia from their roots. Unfortunately that’s not it today, and the attacks towards LGBTQ are not stopping and will keep increasing as long as we let them. Cities in Europe that were once safe spaces are not full with these homophobic people. Just some months ago, a group of Islamic attacked a trans person and he ended up in the hospital. This year and last year while I was walking towards the pride demonstration I was screamed homophobic slurs from a moving car in an area that is filled with these homophobic people. I am happy to accept islam, I will never accept homophobic islam, period.
Homophobes and racists should not exist, prejudice is cultural and a lot of the time revolves around socio-economic reality. Even in the richest western countries homophobia is still a problem, and not just in the minority communities that are fucked 6 ways to Sunday for the most part anyway. Creating boogeymen is what cultures do, and just as religious people create gay boogeymen; in the west, white people create non-white boogeymen.
I’m sorry on behalf of those shitty Muslims for what they did to you. Hate towards any group in any form is haram. I don’t know what they were thinking when they thought acting like that was ok.
As for where you’re asking where Muslims have been attacked by people of the LGBT+ community, I can’t observe a physical event at the time of writing, as I don’t have the time to research this. However, I have seen plenty of verbal abuse across the internet by irrational members of the LGBT+ community towards many Muslims.
To generalise the entire community based off of these morons would be hypocritical of me when I ask you to please not generalise Muslims as people due to the actions of the few with extremist opinions.
The law is the issue, I agree. Not religion as much. People are still given the right to a fair trial. The issue arises when police think they can do random stuff without any reason other than vague and pathetic understandings of the law.
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Yes, all of them. I will never understand people targeting just Islam for shit like this while literally all abrahamic faiths have the same shit said in different ways in their holy books.
Context was removed, so sorry if I got you wrong.
You are right about the books. In practice, however, there are differences. A few countries punish homosexuality with the death penalty, and all of them are Islamic (though the precise historic reasons can vary, I assume, and religion may or may not play a prominent role in that).
Maybe the age difference makes a difference in practice. When we remember how Christianity was practiced 600 years ago …
There was a lot less difference in liberties in majority Islamic countries and the majority Christian countries until the 60s’ and 70s’ when Islamic fundamentalist theocracies got enough popular support to gain power. It is a very complex phenomenon that is largely linked to colonialism and especially de-colonization.
Based purely on books Islam is actually the most advanced of the religious texts. It for example actually grants rights for women that are not found in other Abrahamic religions. Do they actually happen as Quaran and hadiths say? No, they largely don’t. But there is a high level of differences between different Islamic countries and that are not explainable by sects they believe in. For hijab (as clothing) Afghanistan and Turkey are very different from burqa to hijab (headscarf) having been banned for decades.
Current people in power in Islamic countries aren’t there necessarily because of current popular support. Trying to unravel Gordian’s knot of Islam, dictatorship, culture, fundamentalism, colonialism and decolonization is as the name tells pretty impossible., For example, FGM is seen as Islamic practice and while not haram it is not Islamic but cultural one that seems to have at least one center in Kurdisrtan. Only thing prophet Mohammed said about it is that if you have to cut don’t cut so severely. Which by Islamic jurisprudence makes only the cutting severely not practice itself haram. One of the Islamic principles is that if it isn’t explicitly banned it is allowed. Honor violence is a thing. Part of it is largely cultural and how the majority of Islamic countries are honour based societies.
Of course Islam and especially Muslims have a huge amount of issues with social liberties and human rights. But even worst of it, Islamic terrorism, has been a minority in both casualties and attacks in Western countries. In the US in past 50 years majority of attacks have been linked to alt-right and Christian fundamentalism. The majority of attacks by Islamic terrorist organizations happen in Islamic countries which tells us that either governments or inhabitants are not fundamentalist enough for those groups. The rise of the two biggest of past couple of decades, Al Qaida and ISIS/DAESH can be followed to the actions of Western countries. Former because of armament and training because of Cold War and the latter to the power vacuum left by the Iraq war.
Current issues in Turkey are a lot less Islam related than to things like having autocrat and a culture with ultra nationalistic. For example how Ataturk is seen as something that is closing what is haram. Turkey is following especially civil society and oppositional politicians to close degree. The space for advancement in social liberties and human rights is very narrow and they have no issue deporting, jailing or vanishing people (usually just jailing them in black sites). But that does not differ from Russia for example. Erdogan also has no qualms of for example fucking up the economy even more to gain votes. There are different rules for different types of people. If anyone can skirt the rule of law they will. Tax evasion is more assumed than something notable. But one thing I had no issues with was Islam itself. While as foreigner albeit woman I had more leeway but I did not need it. The biggest culture shocks were not Islam but living under autocrat, my and my organizations actions being followed constantly, wide corruption and the absolutely mind boggling one was getting used to people not caring that things are not functional. Currently, the majority of my Turkish friends who have a way out are leaving. Erdogan’s economic decisions for winning elections are already increasing inflation that already was entirely out of hand. You literally had no idea what things would cost tomorrow even before elections. The last earthquake in Turkey destroyed a lot of land that was farmland and with war in Ukraine already causing famine forecast is not great.
Tax these things into the ground at the very least they can contribute something of value.
Every single cult is.
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The idea all Muslims are homophobic is a dumb generalization. Call it a stigma. Corrupt police exist in Turkey, and not all of them are Muslim. The idea you’re giving that Turkish police have to be Muslim is as racist as their actions were homophobic.
Please don’t be hypocritical. I’m sure anti-theists have some level of respect for religious people.
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Is vice versa so common? Lol.
Calling a religion a disease borders fascistic rhetoric.
As I said, i dont respect anyone that is attacking members of the LGBTQ+ community. You said it’s the same? No, we are not attacking, we are asking for respect. As long as you are not giving it, then we are not accepting you.
You must then be ignorant of the weaponised LGBT identity politics that is sometimes used to justify the invasion and murder of Muslim lives in the Middle East by white countries, as well as the fascist shift in Europe against Muslim immigrants.
LGBT people often participate in the rhetoric and are used as a stick for punitive policies in Europe.
Does this mean by extension all LGBT people are responsible for these crimes?
What on earth are you talking about?
I can’t think of any invasion anywhere that was caused by LGBT politics, so please cite some sources.
Mosques will never hoist a rainbow flag. It’s a core belief in Islam that homosexuality is wrong. But such a belief should never be used to justify homophobia.
homophobia /ˌhɒməˈfəʊbɪə,ˌhəʊməˈfəʊbɪə/ noun dislike of or prejudice against gay people
I’m not homophobic. Just not entirely accepting the idea of homosexuality. Doesn’t mean I get the right to attack people of the LGBT+ community.
Islamic countries give every person, regardless of their involvement in the LGBT community, the right to a fair trial. Corrupt police shouldn’t be the face of such law systems.
Why dont you understand the difference?
Islam is HATING on LGBT community. They dont want us among them.
LGBT is not hating on Islam. I want to live together with Islamics, but I dont want to live together with homophobic people.
You are not accepting the “idea” of homosexuality. Im accepting Islam, but Im not accepting that you dont accept the “idea” of homosexuality. BECAUSE, a society doesn’t work with people not accepting each other.
Im sorry, but you have to accept that your ideals are antique and old fashioned, I dont care what your religion says, human evolves, our minds evolves, a man being together with another man is not damaging anyone.
Im not going to accept that you dont accept the idea of homosexuality, and im going to keep fighting to keep Islam outside Europe as much as I can. Once Islam changes their ideals about homosexuality, they are more than welcome
Search lgbtq mosque on google you lazy twat. Also I think the fact you don’t see muslims doing this that and the other says more about you than muslims. The blind prejudice in these comments makes you seem like idiots.
Have you searched it? There are only a handful IN THE WORLD, and they are constantly being vandalized by other Islamic people, at least the one in berlin
Ah, so the day you see mosques hanging lgbt flags isn’t the day you respect blah blah blah. Stop kidding yourself, face your own prejudice before you start spewing your hate. I fucking hate religion with a passion, but you know what I hate more? Racist and nationalist idiots who are blind to their own prejudice. Homophobia is as much a cancer to the world as is your shitty prejudiced world view. Don’t use other people’s prejudice to exercise your own. Fuck your hate.
Ok. Meanwhile we are discussing this on thread about a tourist that was assaulted and jailed by turkey men. Exactly the same as other attacks towards LGBTQ+ that have happened in all europe by Islamic/muslisms/middle eastern men. Exactly the same as I have been assaulted by these people in germany.
Now how many Islamic people have been attacked by members of the LGBTQ+ community? I will be waiting for your answer.
@Everyone else: Dont let these people guilty you into not wanting these homophobic people around you. Im glad to receive and accept islam, once they have purged homophobia from their roots. Unfortunately that’s not it today, and the attacks towards LGBTQ are not stopping and will keep increasing as long as we let them. Cities in Europe that were once safe spaces are not full with these homophobic people. Just some months ago, a group of Islamic attacked a trans person and he ended up in the hospital. This year and last year while I was walking towards the pride demonstration I was screamed homophobic slurs from a moving car in an area that is filled with these homophobic people. I am happy to accept islam, I will never accept homophobic islam, period.
Homophobes and racists should not exist, prejudice is cultural and a lot of the time revolves around socio-economic reality. Even in the richest western countries homophobia is still a problem, and not just in the minority communities that are fucked 6 ways to Sunday for the most part anyway. Creating boogeymen is what cultures do, and just as religious people create gay boogeymen; in the west, white people create non-white boogeymen.
Trauma is universal. Don’t be a bigot!
I’m sorry on behalf of those shitty Muslims for what they did to you. Hate towards any group in any form is haram. I don’t know what they were thinking when they thought acting like that was ok.
As for where you’re asking where Muslims have been attacked by people of the LGBT+ community, I can’t observe a physical event at the time of writing, as I don’t have the time to research this. However, I have seen plenty of verbal abuse across the internet by irrational members of the LGBT+ community towards many Muslims.
To generalise the entire community based off of these morons would be hypocritical of me when I ask you to please not generalise Muslims as people due to the actions of the few with extremist opinions.
It doesn’t matter if it’s all or most if the leadership, law and religion are the issues, not the people who are the exception
The law is the issue, I agree. Not religion as much. People are still given the right to a fair trial. The issue arises when police think they can do random stuff without any reason other than vague and pathetic understandings of the law.
The law is based on the religion
Idiots don’t realise hate will beget hate.
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You’re comparing a race (something you’re born into) to a religion, which suggests that muslims are all one race, too? Eugh.
Nah, I’m talking about “white people” not pink race. Also well done for both towing the racist line and not getting a joke. Bravo Eugh-person.
What the fuck are you talking about?
It was a leddit-tier “joke” that makes no point because “I can’t just say things I have to use SUUUCH clever sarcasm!”
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It’s a racist-off folks!
Then why are you doing it?
I’m satirising your own shitty position, even if unsuccessfully. You seem to be set on missing that point out of anything you’re saying.
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Seethe big humourless racist-man.