- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
China has positioned itself as the main car supplier in Mexico, with exports reaching $4.6 billion in 2023, according to data from Mexico’s Secretariat of Economy.
The Chinese automaker BYD surpassed Honda and Nissan to position itself as the seventh largest automaker in the world by number of units sold during the April to June quarter. This growth was driven by increased demand for its affordable electric vehicles, according to data from automakers and research firm MarkLines.
The company’s new vehicle sales rose 40 percent year over year to 980,000 units in the quarter—the same quarter wherein most major automakers, including Toyota and Volkswagen, experienced a decline in sales. Much of BYD’s growth is attributed to its overseas sales, which nearly tripled in the past year to 105,000 units. Now BYD is considering locating its new auto plant in three Mexican states: Durango, Jalisco, and Nuevo Leon.
Foreign investment would be an economic boost for Mexico. The company has claimed that a plant there would create about 10,000 jobs. A Tesla competitor, BYD markets its Dolphin Mini model in Mexico for about 398,800 pesos—about $21,300 dollars—a little more than half the price of the cheapest Tesla model.
…
That tariff-free access is part of the US-Mexico-Canada Agreement (T-MEC), an updated version of the North American Free Trade Agreement that, as of 2018, eliminated tariffs on many products traded between the North American countries. Under the treaty, if a foreign automotive company that manufactures vehicles in Canada or Mexico can demonstrate that the materials used are locally sourced, its products can be exported to the United States virtually duty-free.
MAGA strikes again
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Other automakers should try producing $21,000 LiFePO4 EV hatchbacks with a 250 mile range instead of cranking out $50,000 EVs with a bunch of ADAS crap that most people don’t care about.
This right here… The fact that Xpeng can produce and sell the MONA for $17k should be a wakeup call to US companies. Even just a simple EV without all the bells would be amazing… We don’t want perfect we just want drivable. Legacy needs to focus on overall efficiency in addition so they can squeeze the most range out of smaller battery packs.
The flat truth is, subsidies or not, nobody would be able to compete with BYD because they’re completely vertically integrated(they even mine and refine their own lithium for christ sakes). They’re a company that both robustly sells battery cells and robustly sells cars. Their margins can go way tighter than anybody else can afford while they keep chasing new markets and line go up.
If quality was an issue, they might have a problem, but since they’ve been outcompeting Volkswagen and Tesla on that domestically, the only thing that will stop them at this point is tariffs, and making people pay more for an electric car when we’re in a climate crisis is just dumb to me despite the monopoly threat that BYD is.
Exactly this. And don’t forget that only countries with big car manufacturers might consider imposing tariffs on them, to preserve their local brands. There are plenty of big markets who don’t and most likely won’t impose any tariffs on them.
My stance on Chinese cars is to have no tariffs on models that are $25kMSRP or less this disincentives them from overly marking them up.
If they’re assembled in America I can see them easily going higher than 25k. Someone bought a byd shark plug in hybrid pickup truck in Mexico on Reddit(they keep it registered in Mexico and drive it in the US) for just under 50k, but even at that price the quality of it was just a steal when you compare it to an F-150 lightning at 80k. They’d torch US automakers on all fronts if they were allowed to compete here.
Not assembled in America, just in general giving them a low ceiling would be good for the customer, and it wouldn’t directly compete with any of the US automakers gigantic SUV
Oh no! Capitalism?! The free market?! How dare they!
Hmm.
So beat them to it, and corner the EV market with affordable domestic models.
Seems like a pretty simple solution to me.
I wonder how soon all EVs will be heavily marked up in order to support
politicians need for more bribe money“essential petroleum industry”, regardless of country of originOr they’ll just work out a way to ban the ones they think are too cheap from charging networks
By the US they mean wealthy owners and shareholders of the automobile manufacturers that failed to invest profits in technology updates to keep their products competitive in an open market. Workers, parts manufacturers, etc would be happy to build and work on economy priced EVs.
And those companies got rid of all the social incentives; no long-term jobs, pensions are gone, etc. They carved out every possible benefit to the community and monetised every scrap of consumer data from their customers.
Let them burn.
How is this a “MAGA strikes again”? I’m legitimately asking.
Manufacturing has moved to China to reduce costs for decades, NAFTA was signed in the 90s, car companies have been using that to make cars for the US market with cheaper labor from Mexico since its inception. The tariffs on Chinese EVs are the work of the current administration.
Sometimes things happen because of the entire system, not because of one asshole falling out of a coconut tree
Because apparently it’s a problem only when a Chinese company does it. There are no problems at all when it’s GM, Toyota or Ford moving factories from the USA to Mexico for cost cutting reasons
How is this a “MAGA strikes again”?
That tariff-free access is part of the US-Mexico-Canada Agreement (T-MEC), an updated version of the North American Free Trade Agreement that, as of 2018
Signed under Donald Trump
Did you not read my comment? USMCA is an updated version of NAFTA. USMCA is actually MORE restrictive in regards to imported automotives, increasing the requirement that the total value of the vehicle must come from the country of origin from 62.5% to 75%.
USMCA is actually MORE restrictive in regards to imported automotives
Under the treaty, if a foreign automotive company that manufactures vehicles in Canada or Mexico can demonstrate that the materials used are locally sourced, its products can be exported to the United States virtually duty-free.
That does not look particularly restrictive to me.
the total value of the vehicle must come from the country of origin from 62.5% to 75%
The methods by which “total value” are calculated for country of origin leave open the possibility of building out capital with overseas resources and expertise. This has been the end-run around a host of tariff and trade provisions. You do all the hard bits of engineering abroad and then do the raw assembly of parts just on the other side of the border.
USMCA countries become a backdoor that provide for the evasion of a whole host of trade restrictions.
How Chinese firms are using Mexico as a backdoor to the US
Man Wah is one of scores of Chinese companies to relocate to industrial parks in northern Mexico in recent years, to bring production closer to the US market. As well as saving on shipping, their final product is considered completely Mexican - meaning Chinese firms can avoid the US tariffs and sanctions imposed on Chinese goods amid the continuing trade war between the two countries.
As the company’s general manager, Yu Ken Wei, shows me around its vast site, he says the move to Mexico has made economic and logistical sense.
“We hope to triple or even quadruple production here,” he says in perfect Spanish. “The intention here in Mexico is to bring production up to the level of our operation in Vietnam.”
Anywhere the US has friendly trade relations gets this same treatment. Mexico is simply ground zero because of its proximity to the lucrative Texas and California retail centers.
You’re just repeating what I just said.
If you don’t like free trade, don’t make free trade agreements. You’re actually on Team Trump on this one, he’s the one who wanted NAFTA gone. “This is the worst trade deal ever made, maybe ever”
If you don’t like free trade, don’t make free trade agreements.
The conflict is between the ostensible geopolitical tension between the US and China and the domestic hunger for cheap imports that force American trade negotiators to simply look the other way when presented with these giant loopholes.
It isn’t whether we like or don’t like international trade (we clearly love it, as an economic policy). Its the confusion between stated policies (No Chinese Imports! They’re bad for the economy!) and functional policies (Launder these same vehicles through Mexico and they’re good again!)
You’re actually on Team Trump
Its hardly as though Trump is alone in his hostility towards Chinese trade. Biden’s been at least as enthusiastic. But these foreign policy positions are all smoke and mirrors. They’re intended to justify military spending in a looming second Cold War, not economic protectionism that might drive up domestic inflation rates.
Biden’s been at least as enthusiastic
Big move from “MAGA strikes again”
Biden wasn’t in office in 2018. That’s the tricky bit.
Honestly, If the cars pass NHTSA regulations, don’t phone home info to China or BYD, and are inexpensive and not just cheap disposable vehicles, bring ‘em in! I want an inexpensive EV for commuting. It’s not crazy far, and I don’t care about bells and whistles. I just want to make it back and forth reliably and in one piece and I feel like that’s a huge portion of the population.
don’t phone home info to China or BYD
You can guarantee they will. If we can somehow prevent that, I’m game. In fact, I’d rather all car manufacturers cut the data vacuum crap, and every other industry for that matter.
if we could get a company with a large RF blocking Faraday cadge for putting the car in and the right equipment they could probably find the transmitter and provide instructions on hard modding the car.
That’s a surefire way to violate the warranty, nevermind most average folks won’t even bother
i cant wait to fuck american automakers over by buying a cheap, higher quality chinese ev. i dont care how much it costs, it will be worth it to thumb my nose at that shitty fucking industry.
Outside of Tesla, the EV market in the US is already comprised of mostly foreign brands. These concerns aren’t about protecting the few American automakers (GM, Ford, Tesla) left, it’s about protecting the market for everyone, protecting all those union jobs, and preventing a bunch of companies going out of business because they can’t compete against unsustainable Chinese subsidies.
We could match the subsidies. Wow shocker, an amazing idea!
Its ridiculous watching Americans actively argue against their own benefit.
The subsidies they’re paying are completely unsustainable and is just a race to the bottom for both countries.
Why are China’s subsidies bad and Americas good?
Because China’s only apply to Chinese vehicles while the US’s apply to everyone in the industry including foreign brands. This increases competition. China’s goal is to reduce competition by putting competitors out of business so that they can recoup their investment by jacking up the prices once there is nobody left to stand in their way.
Did you consider they are subsidizing it to reduce pollution? Would be great if the greatest country in the west started solving problems again instead of coming up with elaborate scams and grifts.
That’s a hilarious take as they’re the largest polluter in the world and have terrible environmental regulations. They’re doing it to capture and control the market. How does dumping a bunch of cheap, disposable cars that they’ve shipped halfway across the world after building reduce pollution exactly?
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-china-ev-graveyards/
I’ll buy Chinese before I buy US
IMO, they should allow Chinese vehicles under a certain weight. Leave some protectionism while forcing the market to adjust downwards
Keep them China trucks out!!! Gimme my ‘Merica truck!
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I would be more than happy to drive a $15000 electric car.
its not really 15k though, even countries that are near China and has a BYD factory built in it doesnt get that pricing. The Dolphin in Thailand is a 700k Baht (~19k USD) vehicle
unless china could both skirt laws, ontop of have a supply chain that already exists in the Americas thats is equal or cheaper than in asia, they would not get that pricing unless they stripped the already stripped down vehicles even further.
Okay, 19k
We aren’t letting Chinese cars in, we are letting Mexican cars in.
I contracted to one of the big 3 for over 30 years. When we decided to quit making cars and focus on trucks, SUV’s, and crossovers it seemed like they were giving up future numbers for short term profit. It’s obvious small electric cars are the future but our big 3 want to ignore that. Blaming the lost market share on small cars from China disregards that they chose to leave that market. Of course Asia would step into that market and fill it
Capitalism you jealous hoe-oore
When a corporation or private individual uses their large pool of capital to subsidize an unsustainable business model that undercuts and disrupts the competition until it can establish market dominance, that’s called venture capitalism. When a government does the exact same thing, that’s called communism.
The typical American mindset of “corporation good, government bad”.
Our intentions were good, until they were not.
I love your propaganda filled shitposts!
Yes, yes, sure “the US fears…” lmao get real, kiddo.
Call me when China creates something new that isn’t a blatant IP theft from the west 👌
But but but they did it cheaper!
That’s easy when you use slave labor and run plants on a 996 schedule 🤡
Call me when China creates something new
My brother in Christ, they invented paper, fireworks, and the compass.
But but but they did it cheaper!
Because they developed more efficient engineering techniques and more advanced methods of industrial scale production. In the same way Japan ate the American auto industry’s lunch during the 80s and 90s by investing heavily in industry and education, China is flooding the zone with talented professionals and capital improvement projects. Meanwhile, Americans are just inventing new kinds advertisements for of bitcoin.
That’s easy when you use slave labor
The Chinese middle class is the largest in the world.
You couldn’t even refute those idiotic points properly.
My brother in Christ, they invented paper, fireworks, and the compass.
True. And irrelevant.
Because they developed more efficient engineering techniques and more advanced methods of industrial scale production. In the same way Japan ate the American auto industry’s lunch during the 80s and 90s by investing heavily in industry and education, China is flooding the zone with talented professionals and capital improvement projects.
And because the Chinese government is heavily subsidizing their auto industry in order to gain market share works wide. Pros for us: if we can buy these cars, the Chinese government is essentially subsidizing them for our consumers. Cons for us: without equivalent subsidies domestic car companies can’t possibly compete. There are genuine issues of trade fairness in play here.
The Chinese middle class is the largest in the world.
Relevant only if the Chinese middle class is who is working in those car factories. Is that the case?
I’m not even saying the tarrifs are good or bad. If they’re explicitly time boxed and our governments are able to stick to that deal, then they could be good. But in general tarrifs on EVs during a climate crisis driven by carbon emissions is explicitly counterproductive.
True. And irrelevant.
“Show me one thing China has invented”
“Here’s three”
“DOESN’T COUNT!”
Okay, bro.
Some people are able to understand context.
they invented paper, fireworks, and the compass
Lol, yea. And Timbuktu used to be the world capital of trade, now it’s just a shit hole in the middle of the desert.
Are you suggesting that nobody lives in China?
You think your comment doesn’t sound like propaganda? lol the irony
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https://www.wired.com/story/china-conquers-mexican-automotive-market-and-the-us-is-worried/
