“We believe the prerequisite for meaningful diplomacy and real peace is a stronger Ukraine, capable of deterring and defending against any future aggression,” Blinken said in a speech in Finland, which recently became NATO’s newest member and shares a long border with Russia.

  • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    The only people doing mental gymnastics here are the ones who genuinely believe that the west is helping Ukraine defend itself as opposed to destroying Ukraine in a proxy war with Russia. You are all going to have a lot of soul searching to do at the end of all this.

    • FlowVoid@midwest.social
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      1 year ago

      Wow, your maps are so persuasive!

      I’m excited to report that I just looked at map of Kosovo, it shows almost the same thing! That region is full of people who consider themselves ethnic Albanians who don’t support Serbia in the slightest.

      I guess that means that you must support the annexation of Kosovo to Albania, by force if necessary, right? I mean, because otherwise that would mean that you are nothing more than a reflexive, anti-West stooge and there’s no way that could be possible.

      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        If people in Kosovo actually want to join Albania then they should be able to. Last I checked though, there are plenty of Serbs living there who recently clashed with NATO troops. You want to remind me why that happened?

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Wait, but I thought you were just telling me that people in Kosovo wanted to join Albania. Can’t even keep your story straight? 🤡

            • FlowVoid@midwest.social
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              1 year ago

              No, I said Albanians in Kosovo are like Russians in Ukraine. Neither is 100% homogeneous, but that doesn’t give anyone a right to annex their land.

                • BrooklynMan@lemmy.mlOP
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                  1 year ago

                  Whataboutism

                  Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in “what about…?”) denotes in a pejorative sense a procedure in which a critical question or argument is not answered or discussed, but retorted with a critical counter-question which expresses a counter-accusation. From a logical and argumentative point of view it is considered a variant of the tu-quoque pattern (Latin ‘you too’, term for a counter-accusation), which is a subtype of the ad-hominem argument.[1][2][3][4]

                  The communication intent is often to distract from the content of a topic (red herring). The goal may also be to question the justification for criticism and the legitimacy, integrity, and fairness of the critic, which can take on the character of discrediting the criticism, which may or may not be justified. Common accusations include double standards, and hypocrisy, but it can also be used to relativize criticism of one’s own viewpoints or behaviors. (A: “Long-term unemployment often means poverty in Germany.” B: “And what about the starving in Africa and Asia?”).[5] Related manipulation and propaganda techniques in the sense of rhetorical evasion of the topic are the change of topic and false balance (bothsidesism).

                  • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    Whataboutism is a form of a tu quoque logical fallacy used to justify having double standards for one’s own behavior and that of others. Anybody using this term unironically can be safely dismissed.

    • BrooklynMan@lemmy.mlOP
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      1 year ago

      “i know you are but what am I?” is the argument of a child, and pretending that the west helping Ukraine is the same as Russia bombing it to bits is treating your audience like children.

      believe it or not, not everyone is as foolish as you.

      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        The west is not helping Ukraine, and the fact that people in the west continue to pretend that’s the case if absolutely sickening. And you’ve demonstrated beyond all doubt that you are far more foolish than me.

        • BrooklynMan@lemmy.mlOP
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          1 year ago

          The west is not helping Ukraine

          so you say, but in every demonstrable way, we are, including by every claim made by their government and the plurality of their people. and it’s pretty hilarious that you claim to be some authority to make claims to the contrary. The only ones who would claim otherwise are Russia and their supporters, of which you are clearly one.

          so, why should anyone take your positions seriously?

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            The west is helping exactly the same way the west helped Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and countless other countries that were destroyed as a result of western interventions. One has to have a brain as smooth as a bowling ball to think that west gets involved in these conflicts due to some altruistic purposes.

            Maybe spend a bit of time educating yourself instead of making a clown of yourself in public. It’s frankly embarrassing.

            • FlowVoid@midwest.social
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              1 year ago

              Who said anything about altruism? All sides are motivated by self interest. Ukrainians want to kill Russian soldiers on their soil, and the US wants other people to kill Russian soldiers on foreign soil.

              They cooperate because their interests align, even if Ukrainians have a more justified motivation.

              • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                Ah, so you’re finally admitting that what we’re seeing is a proxy war between the regime US installed in Ukraine after a coup in 2014 and Russia. We’re finally getting somewhere.