So two out of ten Republicans whole heartily support the crimes they know he committed.
2 out of 10 in the GOP support Trump over National Security and Democracy.
The next time someone asks me why I can’t stand to be around any MAGA person, this will be my first answer.
You can simplify that fraction as 1/5 fascists.
Yup, 1/5th of fascists know they’re fascists.
I’d venture it’s probably close to 3/5 KNOW they are fascists, 1 of those 3 isn’t ashamed, and the remaining 2/5ths I’d bet at most 1 of them is completely duped
Yes. This is the power of Trump’s populism. It’s astounding that coastal Americans still don’t understand the suffering Middle Americans are going though that continue to lead to these extreme candidates on the right, but here we are.
Micheal Moore was right.
What has he said he will do for middle america?
Talking about bringing manufacturing jobs back to the Midwest is a very big one here. Whether or not it actually makes economic sense to do so doesn’t matter, the fact is he’s saying it. People want to hear that.
A lot of conservatives aren’t playing by the same rule book. They don’t care that Trump committed crimes because they only care that he achieves their desires goals. All the outrage and confusion when conservatives support terrible people is missing the point. They aren’t hypocritical when they try to call out others, because they don’t really care that someone else committed a crime. They only care that they win.
It’s not a contradiction to them when they cry about pedophiles and then vote for one. Crying about pedophiles was just a tactic to try and gain power and further their goals.
It’s almost like we should never, ever trust the word of a conservative. Never.
Tack “religious leader” on there too.
They seem to have skipped the “one nation” part.
They think that they can create an authoritative system and rules that will bring people in line and create one nation under their values (while disregarding the rules of the current system).
They know that it won’t be supported by everyone, but they assume that the problems will come mainly from the groups they want to purge anyways. That’s why they get so pissed off when they see “members of their group” supporting the groups they hate and have shit like “race traitor” in their vocabulary. They think there’s a brotherhood that doesn’t really exist between people who look similar.
They think that they can create an authoritative system and rules that will bring people in line
Sometimes it just seems that they were raised on authoritative media (including the TV news and radio they admire). First, the Levant stories about voices from the sky and burning bushes. Then Trump is famous for his TV personality of “you’re fired!” commandments. Rick Roderick’s 1990’s descriptions help me with the words: “And on a Freudian account, it’s not accidental that that’s the time you reach out for large and invisible fathers to protect you… and mothers. And you know what, that’s elegant suspicion. It is not an argument; it’s an elegant suspicion. In fact when you look at the iconic significance of churches, you know the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost, the family values stuff, you know… I mean, I hate to sound cynical, but as Freud says, they whole thing is so patently infantile. So obviously infantile, that to anyone with the love of humanity it’s just sad to think that most people will never rise above this view of life.”
While an interesting map, the US is much more divided by rural vs urban considerations.
So here’s my perspective on that: In 1954 “they” tied “one nation under god” together. So to me, if your don’t worship their god, then you’re not part of their nation. It gets even more fucked up when its scrutinized what they actually worship in real world practice.
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And let’s be really clear - the GOP being the party o crime isn’t a new thing. Nixon got elected by interfering with US negotiations in Vietnam. Got pardoned through GOP bullshit too. Reagan got caught dead to rights on Iran Contra, but Bill fucking Barr came along and made sure there were no consequences for him OR George Bush. Finally, Bush’s kid invaded an entire country based on lies. And there’s never any consequences. They’re simply devolving into pettier bullshit to crime about.
Party over Country for Republicans. Always has been.
It goes deeper than that imho.
They are OK with any level of criminality, as long as it’s done to people they don’t like and by default, they consider everyone outside their usually very small ingroups as people they don’t like.
It’s only when it happens to them directly, they want retribution against whomever they think slighted them. They don’t care about justice and finding out who actually slighting them, they are entirely reactionary and will rather have someone they think did the crime punished ASAP, with extreme prejudice, than actual justice where we figure out whomever did the crime and punish them appropriately.
It’s not about party, it’s about the criminality itself.
They like the criminality because they want to be able to do that too.
There have been several instances in my life where in a religious debate, specifically right wing Christians would dead seriously use the line “if there is no god, what is keeping you from murdering, raping and stealing?”, something left wing Christians would never even consider thinking or saying.
For me and everyone who isn’t a fucking narcissistic sociopath, the answer to that would be "I killed and raped everyone I want to kill, nobody, and stole what I want to steal, nothing.
To them, it’s a laundry list of people and things and they are fully aware there is no god and what is holding them back from doing these things is society and “the libs”.
Yes, for them, being held accountable by anyone is infuriating. And seeing an alpha from their in group being held accountable is a personal threat to them so they back him.
I dunno, left wing Christianity would say some bullshit like “oh you don’t idly kill people for no reason because God made you that way!”
Same shit, different jar.
to no one’s surprise. republicans are traitors.
The only thing that surprises me is that this fact surprises anyone.
Yeah. Trump committed serious federal crimes, and they’re happy he did so. Why’s this headline treating this like a contradiction?
They don’t want the laws to apply to “their team”. They’ve been consistent, clear, and open about that for decades now.
If you just take a second to think, there’s nothing to be surprised about. They think Trump is David and “the system” (whatever it is, Joe Biden and pizzagate) is Goliath.
If say Bernie Sanders also broke the law but in his supporters’ minds was morally right, they wouldn’t abandon him.
And I’m not saying Trump isn’t a piece of shit, he clearly is. But his supporters are brainwashed to a degree that you could describe as terminal so they obviously think he’s right and there even isn’t a moral quandary nor double standard in their train of thought.
If say Bernie Sanders also broke the law but in his supporters’ minds was morally right, they wouldn’t abandon him.
To add to this, this literally happened in 1963 and is referenced as one of his biggest selling points.
Yes, which law is a pretty big factor. Not all laws are just.
But it’s totally not a cult.
So, it’s not quite like the headline:
Overall, Mr. Trump led Mr. DeSantis 54 percent to 17 percent. No other candidate topped 3 percent support in the poll.
…
Mr. Trump’s grip on the Republican Party is so strong, the Times/Siena poll found, that in a head-to-head contest with Mr. DeSantis, Mr. Trump still received 22 percent among voters who believe he has committed serious federal crimes—a greater share than the 17 percent that Mr. DeSantis earned from the entire GOP electorate.
Trump has only 54% Republican support? And only 22% of Republicans who think he committed serious crimes? Those are, to me, surprisingly low numbers.
You’re thinking about the support figure wrong I think. 54% put him as the first choice. I very much doubt 46% of Republicans wouldn’t vote for him at all, he’s just not the top of their list.
As an aside I’d be surprised if a similar poll on the Dems side would have anyone over 30% support. Most would absolutely vote for Biden but he’s not many peoples first hand choice for president out of the potential candidates from the Dem side. Still might be the individual with most support though.
Your point is good about primary vs general voting, but 538 has a poll up for the Dems.
Only Biden and Kennedy are listed. It’s 65.1% to 14.9% respectively.
That’s how bad a candidate Kennedy is. But is also likely good news for keeping nut jobs out of the White House. A
Kennedy isn’t really a Dem candidate. Shame on 538 for helping give that billionaire funded spoiler campaign legitimacy.
Dems and billionaire spoiler candidates. Name a more iconic duo.
So as another poster pointed out, Biden’s number is 65%.
To the broader point, I do get that this poll is asking Republicans who they would support in the primary, not whether they’d vote for Trump in the general. I guess what I’m saying is, I see this as 45% of Republicans who don’t want to vote for Trump in the primary (with the overlap of people who are sensible enough not to want Trump, but do want DeSantis for some godforsaken reason, being pretty small.) Then, 78% of Republicans who do acknowledge the factual reality that Trump committed serious crimes, don’t want to vote for him as a result.
I argue that the situation isn’t the same for the Dems what with not putting Biden up for re-election would be very unexpected and as such only really Kennedy has stood up as a “potential candidate”. But I concede that I was wrong given that you both interpreted what I wrote differently from how I thought, and what you understood has been disproven.
Those who won’t vote for him in the primary will likely still vote for him in the general is my main point. Republicans always fall in line and there is little to indicate this time will be different. The people who would vote for DeSantis but at the same time would abstain from voting for Trump meaning improving the Dems chances must be in the single digits. Also those 78% aren’t a big share of Republicans as a whole and further many of those likely are DeSantis supporters. The bottom line is Trump still has mind boggling support from Republican voters.
There’s a difference between admitting in a poll and voting. Every one of those republicans, even the other 46% will still vote for him or any other serial rapist/bigot/racist if they have an ® next to their name.
That’s about 8 million people.
Out if curiosity, Wikipedia says the Nazi party was about 8.5 million.
22% support among people who think he committed crimes… The number of Republicans who think he actually committed crimes is much lower, about 17% of Republicans.
So 22% of that 17% think he’s guilty and support him anyway.
It might not matter. A conviction for mishandling classified information disqualifies a person from running for federal office. Paragraph (b). A conviction causes the person to forfeit any federal office and disqualifies them from ever running again. Jack Smith knows what he’s doing.
Of course, it would not bar Trump from running against DeSantis for governor of Florida. That’s a state office.
I’m not sure if disqualifying Trump and clearing the path for DeSantis is a good idea…
“It’s because he says what we’re all thinking!” - People who should think something else.
The party of law & order, everyone.
That’s just for show. Always has been this way.
In reality it’s the party of winning by any means. Talking about law & order, denouncing the slightest misconduct in opponents while ignoring blatant crimes in their own candidates. These are no contradictions or hypocracy, but all just tools to win.
Absurd was a great word choice. The entire thing is ridiculous.
He’s Fascist! They’re Fascist! Why wouldn’t they support him?
So if the guy wins even though he’s imprisoned… will they make a prison look like the white house? Or install fences and bars in the real one? So many questions…
Doesn’t this directly contradict this post? https://lemmy.world/post/2461957 Something seems to be off.
The other one says 17% of Republicans feel he committed serious crimes, but fails to address if they still support him or not.
This one states:
“Mr. Trump still received 22 percent among voters who believe he has committed serious federal crimes—a greater share than the 17 percent that Mr. DeSantis earned from the entire GOP electorate.”
So among those who think he committed serious crimes, 22% of them still support him.
So if the numbers hold true… 17% of Republicans, and 22% of 17% = 3.74% of Republicans still support him even though they think he’s a crimimal.
How many different ways can we say that conservatives are fucking stupid? Seriously- every article depicts them as dumb in a different way.
