• WarmSoda@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    186
    arrow-down
    13
    ·
    1 year ago

    If all electric cars are just going to be subscription bullshit, I’m sorry, I won’t be driving electric.

    • jetsetdorito@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      100
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Even ICE manufacturers have been including hardware that software disabled for a while

      • smallaubergine@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        30
        ·
        1 year ago

        I got an OBDeleven for my 2015 GTI so I could unlock stuff and customize. Enabled rolling down the windows with the key fob, being able to display the engine oil temp in the dash and also setting the accelerator pedal curve to linear.

          • abhibeckert@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            18
            ·
            1 year ago

            The accelerator curve is really cool. A lot of modern cars just have a sensor that detects your pedal position and a simple algorithm decides how much power to translate that into. It’s like adjusting the mouse speed on a computer. Feels like you’re driving a different car.

            Having said that, the default curve is often the best curve. They put a lot more effort into getting it right than you would.

          • smallaubergine@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            11
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Kinda depends on the car. Volkswagen cars are pretty “hackable” with OBDeleven which is a wireless interface for the hilariously named “VAGCOM” protocol.

          • Bucket_of_Truth@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Almost every car company does something similar and has as long as they’ve had on board computers.

            VW/Audi/Porche are all the same company and generally share the same electronics. A lot of gauges and features are considered “premium” so they just disable them for VW branded vehicles. There’s also regional feature lockouts; IIRC North American VW’s can’t have their fog-lights and headlights on at the same time but you can enable it through VAGCOM.

      • falkerie71@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        15
        ·
        1 year ago

        Subscribe to enable your BMW seat heater! They definitely require periodic software updates and is absolutely NOT a blatant money grab

      • BobKerman3999@feddit.it
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        11
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Audi had been doing this for years and they even disable stuff if you sell your car to another private person. One of my friends bought a used Audi and everything was disabled so he installed a cracked version of the infotainment software and now the only thing that doesn’t work is the fingerprint unlock.

      • finder@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        1 year ago

        There are some manufacturers that do not do this garbage, or at least not often. I’ve heard good things about Hyundai specifically.

        • boonhet@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          ·
          1 year ago

          For now they have customer goodwill to win back after nearly a decade of building cars that practically fell apart in a year or 2 in the late 00s and early 10s.

          They’ll catch up to the others in anti-consumer practices soon, but for now they’re a good choice if you don’t particularly care for performance or ride quality.

        • _stranger_@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Tesla got rid of the heater subscription bullshit in 2021. Now, the only thing locked behind a paywall is internet related stuff (sentry over mobile, streaming media access, etc.), the performance boost, and FSD.

    • holo_nexus@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      75
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      It won’t just be electric cars, it’ll be all new model cars from manufacturing companies. At least until ICE is phased out.

      • Jode@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        24
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        More like, until the Chinese weasel their way into the US market with cheaper-than-used cars to undercut the legacy auto makers. 10 years or so, it’ll happen. And the big 3 will be begging for bailouts again. That is unless they smarten up and remember what made Ford what it is today.

        • CapraObscura@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          14
          ·
          1 year ago

          remember what made Ford what it is today.

          American can-do spirit, worker’s rights, and throbbing fuckloads of antisemitism.

        • Bucket_of_Truth@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          ·
          1 year ago

          I don’t see that happening. The US puts large tariffs on imported cars to stifle competition. That’s why if you look at Japanese cars in Japan or German cars in Germany they’re often much cheaper and more powerful than their American counterparts.

          • boonhet@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            1 year ago

            German cars in Germany

            German cars in Europe also seems to last pretty decently where as American-made German cars apparently keep falling apart after 5 years lol

        • Black_Gulaman@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          They’re already doing that in some parts of the world. Then when they get sizeable market share, they emulated what the previous car makers do. It’s just not an improvement. It’s more of the same, only the manufacturer is different.

        • Sirobin@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          You know what Ford stands for, don’t ya? It stands for ‘Fix it again, Tony’ hehehe.

      • Patius@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        12
        ·
        1 year ago

        Yeah. GM’s subscription nonsense is for their ice cars too. BMW’s aborted seat heater thing was too.

      • sheogorath@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        This is why I keep an oldish diesel car with no extra electronic features in my garage. No weird features, and can still run even without a battery.

        Although, I think the reason I kept the car is because of my paranoia of an EMP event frying electronics.

      • WarmSoda@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Yeah that’s true. I wonder if the market for older cars has been going up yet.

    • inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      36
      ·
      1 year ago

      Have you seen the automotive industry as of late? This isn’t a EV issue nor is it really new. We’ve had things like OnStar for years and the entire industry has started to chase the gaming industry’s microtransaction BS for a while now.

      https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/12/23204950/bmw-subscriptions-microtransactions-heated-seats-feature

      https://www.thedrive.com/news/43329/toyota-made-its-key-fob-remote-start-into-a-subscription-service

      The future looks like a potential live service hell scape for the auto industry EV or otherwise.

      • arefx@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        1 year ago

        Everything is being ruined. It feels like hyperbole but I’m not sure it is.

      • WarmSoda@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Yes, I know it’s industry wide. What I’m saying is that with EV being the future of cars I don’t want them all to be subscription based.

    • BirdsWithBeefyArms@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      28
      ·
      1 year ago

      I have a Rivian and it works great with no subscription. The only thing you can add via Sub is a hotspot, which seems reasonable to me.

      • zurohki@aussie.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        24
        ·
        1 year ago

        I’m okay with being charged a monthly subscription for something that has an ongoing cost, like mobile data. So long as I can still hotspot my phone and access ‘premium connectivity’ features over wifi, that is.

        • abhibeckert@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Yeah about those ‘premium connectivity features’… one of them is warning you that the road you’re about to drive on has a traffic jam. And no, you can’t have it use your phone’s internet connection and you also can’t do CarPlay or Android Auto.

          For me real time traffic isn’t a premium feature or an ad on. It’s table stakes. And it should be free. Worse, not having it already almost makes your car hard to sell secondhand. Imagine what it’ll be like several years ago when people start selling Rivians?

          • BirdsWithBeefyArms@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            1 year ago

            I agree, I do think they should allow both aa/cp, and wifi while driving so you can tether to your phones wifi. I’m not as doom about secondhand sales as you seem to be though.

          • _stranger_@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            It’s not just the mobile data that’s spendy, it’s the API calls to the vendor(s) they’re getting that data from.

            Android Auto/Car Play would be nice, but having used both, the native Tesla nav is better.

    • XEAL@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      1 year ago

      At some point, there will be practically nothing else to drive…

        • nxfsi@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          18
          ·
          1 year ago

          The average lemming:

          • concerned about online privacy
          • strongly against digital surveillance
          • rides exclusively public transit where there is surveillance everywhere
          • unceme@lemmy.one
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            11
            ·
            1 year ago

            There’s cameras everywhere watching the road too if you really care that much and you better believe your car model and license plate is a much more reliable form of identifying information than a blurry face on a bus security camera.

          • TheSaneWriter@lemmy.thesanewriter.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            12
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            There are fundamental differences between physical and digital surveillance, namely when you are in a public space there is no expectation of privacy because there are other people there looking at you. When there are other people there that can actually see you, a camera also watching doesn’t make much of a difference.

            • notenoughbutter@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              1 year ago

              it does

              people usually doesn’t remember you unless you do some weird shit but once recorded, it will stay for the rest of eternity

              • unceme@lemmy.one
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                4
                ·
                1 year ago

                If you’re talking about standard security cameras usually the footage will get completely overwritten after afeew days unless there was an incident to prompt review of the footage-- and even then it usually gets deleted at some point. Its not like with social media data gathering where they’re collecting all that information in order to build a personal profile of everyone-- security cameras just exist to review incidents that happen in the public realm and there’s no real incentive for a public transit agency to track every single person that appears on their cameras.

          • coltorl@programming.dev
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            9
            ·
            1 year ago

            There is surveillance everywhere outside, even having your own car doesn’t protect you from having your privacy encroached. That’s why I never go outside.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            9
            ·
            1 year ago

            By ‘surveillance,’ do you mean a bus security camera to make sure no one is stabbing the driver? Because I’m pretty sure most of us don’t have much of a problem with that. It’s comprehensive government surveillance that is the problem.

            • nxfsi@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              Unfortunately, “camera to make sure no one stabs the driver” is the exact tool used by “comprehensive government surveillance”. It’s something we’re forced to accept.

              • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                I would like evidence that security cameras on buses are used by the government for comprehensive surveillance. I don’t even know how they would accomplish such a thing with a stationary camera in a bus.

            • nxfsi@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              When does “you should minimize your physical footprint so that you are harder to profile by bad people” suddenly become “just stay inside at all times and never go out”?

              Even with digital privacy, nothing is 100% effective.

              • Cryptic Fawn@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                When you decided to make an ignorant comment about public transportation.

                Obviously nothing is 100%. That’s a given and doesn’t need to be said.

      • wanderingmagus@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Sure there will, always. Fix it yourself jalopies aren’t going away. Get yourself a cheap-o used junker and mod it to be electric, if you can’t or won’t use ICE. DIY isn’t just 3d printers and FOSS. Or get a bicycle and mod it into an e-bike.

    • FlyByIrwin@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      All these upgrades are one time payments for an upgrade, much like sales point dealer add-ons for conventional cars. However recently they did allow you to buy a monthly subscription to FSD. But the option to buy it outright was always there, and still remains.