Android is FOSS tho
Tell that to Google…
Google having their own proprietary crap embedded in their version doesnt make AOSP not FOSS.
Thats the entirety of the basis for things like GrapheneOS, despite Google gobbling it up.
Not technically no, though neither does it fully embrace the spirit of FOSS either. Anyway I was explaining the appearance of those two being at odds with one another in the meme. Anyone who does not enjoy meme content can simply block this community and move on with the serious side of life.:-)
Correct me if I’m wrong but does FOSS not simply mean the following?
software that is available under a license that grants the right to use, modify, and distribute the software, modified or not, to everyone free of charge
source: Wikipedia
From my understanding AOSP’s license grants all those rights. I think what you might be opposed to is that it isn’t developed out in the open, which is a fair criticism.
Well, they wrote the “spirit of FOSS” and you pulled out a completely sterile definition, which has no spirit at all.
At the very least, even with that sterile definition, embracing the spirit would mean making all the software you’re distributing FOSS. Instead, Google has been doing all kinds of bundle deals and whatnot to ensure that most distributions of their FOSS software come with their proprietary parts.
However, going further in embracing the spirit, particularly the “free software” part of FOSS is idealistic. It doesn’t just fulfill that definition to fulfill that definition. Rather, it sees that definition as the baseline, to help ensure that the freedom of users is respected.
AOSP, despite being under an appropriate license, does not respect that freedom.
For example, many users would want their keyboard app (which has access to their typed passwords) to not have internet access. AOSP has a myriad of permissions, but not for internet access, since Google wants their ads to be displayed.In theory, the license ensures that AOSP can be forked, and Custom ROMs do soft-fork it (i.e. make slight amendments to what Google puts out), but due to how much development Google puts into Android rather than there being a development community, it’s effectively not viable for anyone to truly hard-fork AOSP (i.e. take it into a new direction, independent from Google).
it can always be forked as a project that does. this is part of the point of foss and why you should be using lineage or graphene instead if you care about this
yeah, again, just like Chromium technically speaking.
Let’s use the lesser, Foss version of Google’s product so they can continue to have a monopoly, so then later they can force you to install a proprietary blob or account apps or services need.
nothing lesser about grapheneos or lineageos at all.
but im all ears if you have a usable alternative for a foss phone.
nothing lesser about grapheneos or lineageos at all.
iirc there are problems with trying to use some mainstream apps on these operating systems. When I say lesser I don’t mean to demean them, I mean they’re the lesser used and not really known about alternative and thus not really supported unless you can live your life in f-droid which if so, kudos to you, you’re livin’ the dream.
but im all ears if you have a usable alternative for a foss phone.
yeah just like Chromium technically speaking
Android is FOSS, but is your phone FOSS?
i use a foss rom, so its software is.
Ubuntu touch stans:
Get a haircut, hippie.
Ubuntu Touch represent!
Also the team got volte and 5g running on the os!
Oh shit that’s dope I haven’t been keeping up too much with the project
Do android stans exist? Had always thought android was the lesser of two evils for most people
its most definitely the lesser, but there are still many people who would suck off Samsung and Google if they had the opportunity to.
trust me I’ve met them
Just as some Linux enthusiasts would from Mr. Torvalds.
It’s like with every other fandom: There are haters, normal folks, lovers and the pesky hyper-fan.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯What if I just like to suck.
The good thing is: You (still) have free will.
my unwillled physical direction of my neurons disagree
Foss ftw baby
Oh yeah Android has swarms of fanboys.
I used to be one of those fanboys when I was younger, but that was driven more by the fact that they weren’t iPhones than anything particularly good about Android
Used to be a fan of OnePlus but they’ve become like every other phone company now from what I hear
GrapheneOS FTW
Graphene OS changed my life, seriously. Completely changed my relationship to my phone and made it possible to focus again. Go open source
What specific features did you notice the most? (I’m assuming switching from Android?) 90% of my phone usage is through a browser, so I could probably install Graphene pretty easily.
#1 through #69: no push notifications, no feeds on my home screen, nothing I don’t explicitly turn on and configure. No bloat whatsoever, the phone comes practically empty. I got this at the beginning of 2022, before then I kept finding myself reading articles about Johnny Depp and Amber Heard. Like I could not give less of a fuck about them, that story, whatever. I don’t know who she is, and I don’t particularly like JD movies except maybe Dead Man from the 90s, he probably beat the shit out of her idk. But for some reason I kept finding myself reading these articles on my phone absentmindedly. That kind of shit ended immediately.
Downsides? Not everything works, because there’s no google play, and I couldn’t get it even if I wanted it. I can use most google services on the browser, but for maps I have to use Osmand, which works but doesn’t give me the fastest way to a place, and its kind of a trick to find a specific house or business without looking it up on a computer first and locating the nearest cross street. Schools, hospitals it has saved no problem, but not the optimal routes ore even anything relatively close. Great for my city where I can get myself 98% the way there already knowing the fastest ways around. Out of town we usually use my wife’s navigation.
Those drawbacks are a little annoying but I will never go back to android, and I would never use apple in the first place. I love my phone, it feels like its mine in a way no phone ever has.
Hope this helps, ask if you have other questions
Interesting. Not having a good maps / navigation app might be a bit of a dealbreaker for me, since that’s pretty much the last 10% of what I use my phone for. Degoogling myself there will require some effort…
As for push notifications and feeds, I don’t really have a problem with that on my current phone with base android. I’m pretty aggressive about blocking random notifications or uninstalling apps entirely if they show me push notifications ads or “use me” reminders. And my home screen is just a clock and calendar.
GrapheneOS lets you choose whether you want to have a sandboxed google play installation. This way apps such as Maps work. Basically you are in control (except for Google Pay).
I didn’t realize GrapheneOS is only supported on Pixel phones, so I can’t run it after all…
Learn to love OpenStreetMap
You can get Google play working by sideloading it with adb, and enabling graphene’s microG service in the apps menu.
Any further apps installed with Google play, and Google itself, will still be under the default restrictions imposed by graphene, instead of having full access like with stock android.
It can be a little clunky starting out, but once you get used to it, the only major downside I could find was that I couldn’t verify my bank details to enable nfc payments, because Google hasn’t whitelisted Graphene in their API for “security reasons”
Yeah, I can’t imagine what about Graphene would make that big of a difference. Smart phones and slabs of glass with apps on them. There’s very little that truly impacts the experience after you get past specs.
without software, what is hardware? same vice versa, you need good software and hardware to match for a good user experience.
stock android’s software is extremely shit, bloated, and slow. but I guess that goes for every out of the box os these days ¯_(ツ)_/¯
You need good software to make the most out of good hardware, but I think our definition of good is different. For software, as long as the software doesn’t get in the way of launching the app you want, most normies will consider that good. It doesn’t matter that Android is bloated and inefficient if the user can tap the Instagram or Facebook icon and have that open up without user perceptible delay.
The average person is remarkably able to put up with shit. Look at the experience on smart TVs for example. The vast majority of people are fine with the absolutely shitty experience as long as they can open up Netflix.
The reasons listed are things I can already do. I disable any bloat and white-list notifications.
If I need to choose, I’ll go with Android but to be quite frank, I would really prefer to have a “real” computer operating system on those devices. For 10+ years I’ve been waiting for a device that I can put in my pocket, use it on the go, with a data connection, and have the possibility to dock it and continue using it as a full fledged computer, with Linux if possible.
I know some high end Android devices can be “docked” and connected to a monitor, but they are far too expensive and/or too rare. Also, you still have to use apps instead of proper computer software. I don’t like the “everything is an app” model, where they all have to have ads and/or paid versions. Android and “mobile” operating systems are a pain to use. I want to have control over my device.
And I also know there are some devices that can to this, but with the level of technology that we have, a device like this should be easy to find. Yet, it’s all niche stuff that isn’t really polished nor working really well. It’s all damn phones and tablets with “mobile” operating systems that locks users. I wonder if phone/tablet manufacturers keep it that way because there’s no demand for this, or if they simply want to continue the milking of the mobile users.
This! Mobile operating systems are trash, and there’s no good reason for it. I always see people parroting the same nonsense, “you have the power of a super computer in your pocket”. Okay, then why can’t I use it like a supercomputer? It’s all crippled toy versions of the desktop applications, social media garbage, or microtransaction stuffed toilet games.
genuine question, what do you expect out of a mobile OS that you can’t do now?
I should be able to use it like a proper computer that can run full-fat applications, with a monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc. Everyone loves to go on about how powerful phones are, so then why can’t I use that power?
100% agree. Would be nice to be able to just “dock” into a USB-C cable and have a working “PC” at my disposal. Appreciate the response.
Absolutely this. I, too, go for android (pixel even, sigh) but would prefer a real os. android was aweful when it came out, grew much better, then declined again. And with each update they kill so many apps due to “security”-changes.
And what’s worst of all, is the constant struggle to actually own your own device (=root). Noone would ever have bought a pc with no admin-pwd where you can only “refresh” your current windows-version and nothing more. You can’t buy anything else than pixels (and even with those you need at least minimum tech-knowledge and are dependent on the continuing development of ONE app). Having any other brand makes it near impossible without luck, time and frustration-tolerance.
The coming generations will just pay 1000 for a phone they are allowed to use, not own, and think that is how it is and ever has been.
I still am grumpy about Microsoft killing their windows phone line. Not the regular ones, but rather the ones that allowed you to dock it to a display and use a slightly stripped down Windows OS on a full screen. It could’ve actually changed how we use phones/ computers, but instead we have to have a separate device for everything we do.
Phones are already powerful enough to run desktop apps, but I guess it’s down to profits why we still don’t have a “swiss army knife” of a device for everything.
Indeed. They were on the way to a unified os. Still kinda are. And people totally hate them for it. At least you could use the (nearly) same win on your Touch-pad and desktop. And i actually liked their phones. Just could never really keep it without telegram. And that (the lack of apps) was their downfall.
android’s at least open source
The base of it is, but you’re not buying a phone with a fully open source Android OS on it
Sadly true, but still better than nothing
Didn’t they change license at some point, so it’s no longer open source?
AOSP is licensed under Apache 2.0
(if you want to contribute back you must sign a CLA though)
“Google is insidious. They’re really an advertising data-collection company, but people think they’re a tech service company. Their whole strategy is to provide stuff like Chrome for free so that lots of people use it and it becomes a de facto standard, and then they flip a switch and quietly mine all of that data.”
15 minutes later…
“Anyway, I prefer Android cuz it’s FOSS.”
People who prefer android because it’s open source usually use open source android because that’s what they want.
That being said, proprietary blobs and black boxes are a pox on basically every usable device these days. I hate it.
Apple and Google are both part of the NSA’s Prism data collection program.
I had a lot of hope for Android in the early days before Google dropped the n’t from their “Don’t be evil” corporate slogan.
I honestly haven’t seen an “Apple fanboy” IRL in like 10 years lol I feel like that romantic image ended some form ago.
Still, great meme and very true lol
You still get a lot of the old ‘android is for poor people’ narrative. Age and sub-culture also play a part.
Drake, one of the most commercially successful musicians in the past 15 years, released a song where he says he wouldn’t answer a call from a woman because she was calling him from an android.
That song came out just 6 months ago (Oct 2023) and was number one on the charts. A ton of young people will have heard that and been influenced on some level by it, so the Apple fanboy/android hater thing probably won’t be going away any time soon
That’s also Drake and nobody respects him.
I want this to be true lol
I get that but there’s a bit of a difference in status symbols/conspicuous consumption and “Apple fanboy” culture IMO. But again, I get what you mean.
damn I wish I lived where you lived
Fanboys are not the same as people flaunting wealth. I generally see fanboys as advocates for the product and its feature sets. There is no doubt a lot of people by iPhone because of the image of wealth it displays and because it’s an easy decision if you have disposable income from a “set it and forget it” standpoint. The green vs blue text nonsense illustrates that clearly.
It’s like buying designer handbags. They’re still functional handbags and you don’t have to think about it. But it’s primarily about what the brand says about you. I just don’t consider this the domain of “fanboys.” Like I don’t describe Nintendo fanboys as people who buy Nintendo to show off they own Nintendo products. They buy it because they are staunch advocates of Nintendo and its games, as well as generally unable to critique the company or any of its products, usually electing to constantly talk about how everyone else is terrible and Nintendo is perfect and loves them.
Fanboys are not the same as people flaunting wealth.
while they are not the same, a lot of people who use either Apple or Samsung are both, and will constantly fight against right to repair when they don’t know what they’re even talking about, for very stupid reasons, and constantly fight against open standards that are just better, like using type-c for their products, etc etc. these people buy iPhones for the image of wealth, I agree, but these same people also argue about its apps and ecosystem’s and argue that rich, trillion dollar companies are fine and pose no threat, because it is completely fine to be a monopoly and choke hold the industry. they defend their status symbol in every opportunity they get, and often times I’ve seen them make it personal, probably because its personal for them.
sometimes I see these same people who buy Apple as a show of “wealth,” get into those political arguments when they just have no idea what they’re talking about, because for some reason they want to defend the status symbol Apple or Samsing is even if it kills people and the planet.
That’s just my observation over the years.
I’ve never heard someone fight against right to repair in my life. This is not challenging you, that’s just WILD to me
like I said I wish I lived where you lived
I’m not loving the condescension here lol but ok
wdym condescension? sorry if I’m being rude that isn’t my intention
I just had a colleague mock me (good naturedly) the other day for having an android phone. I just laughed and said, I’m no fan of Google but at least I can install what I want on here. That was the end of it, haha.
Damn, in my school class… I thought we are all old enough but my class also consists of Narcisstic and Egocentric people.
I’ve written this a couple of times now, so this is gonna be the last one: it’s not about the wealth it displays, the conspicuous consumption.
Consider the term “Nintendo fanboy.” Do they buy it because of the image? To impress everybody that they own Nintendo products? No, they defend Nintendo and are staunch advocates of the company and their games, unwilling to be critical or consider where other companies/products might be better. They’re basically zealots for a product. Cost and what it says about your status are not top of mind.
There are people who buy Apple products for the social image, to flaunt wealth. That is not the same as the fanboy.
I think that’s because pretty much everything just happens on the internet now. Most specialized applications are either built cross platform or are a website, so it really doesn’t matter what you use that much. It’s just down to personal preference
If you follow a certain orange website, until very recently there’s been a big group of apologists who protect the big and mighty if any bad news surfaced.
This has started to change, but the change is very recent. And in the startup ecosystem using a Mac is a standard and if you do not like them, you are considered weird and the latest social note keeping tool everybody else uses in the company has severe bugs on Linux, if it even works.
i’m a big fan, personally
based asf
They pit us against each other in this arbitrary culture-war…the proprietary versus the open standards. And it’s so wildly anti-consumer but we fall for it, year after year. Maybe one day Apple users will realize how anti-consumer it is, but I doubt it, they love the exclusivity of being half of the people with a smartpbone.
Lol yes. Isn’t it sad? They’re even proud of being “rich” (lol) and brag about their stupid apple-gadgets. Apple really managed to get from “get more, pay less” to “get less, pay even more and get fucked” and having people kiss their butts for it.
Apple as an OS and platform itself, isn’t bad. macOS, I’d contend, is probably the most user-friendly experience out there. iOS and iPadOS aren’t far behind.
Apple also tends to be late with new features, but makes sure they are polished and complete when they launch.
But that’s it. I wouldn’t say that makes them the best by any means. They all have their merits in their own regard. Consumers have their own reasons for selecting one platform over another, and those that don’t choose Apple.
Sent from my OnePlus 12 (and I use Arch, btw) (and my last phone was an iPhone 12 pro max…the only reason I got it was because I was sick of exchanging potatograms with my wife, who wouldn’t use a separate app just to message me. Before that it was a OnePlus 6T, then Galaxy S9, Note 4, Nexus 4, and HTC Hero. Might’ve missed one) (oh yeah had an iPhone 5 from work. Couldn’t wait to exchange that (for the Note 4).
Apple might be user-friendly, but that is kinda easy if you’re super restrictive. And the only one that produces their stuff. The worst thing about android is being so fragmented, not only in versions but also in makers. And some really put tons of their own shit on top of android. I hate it. Especially Samsung. The apple of android.
I also hate it to be stuck with googles pixels. They’re not only the purest but also, ironically, the easiest to root and, especially, un-google them with a different OS.
Use what you like. Just like Windows, macOS and Linux for the vast majority of people, all these OSes are, are platforms to display apps and webpages. They all have sanded off most of the rough edges meaning that unless you have specific niche needs/wants, you’ll just use what is familar and be happy.
Life is too short to have deep feelings about an OS.
Hush
Lineage OS fan here. I’m in the clear
This is the reason you shouldn’t choose a chat platform that requires the using the mobile OS duopoly—get your friends off of LINE, WhatsApp, & Signal.
while I agree, signal is also on Linux and is a more polished alternative
But it does require a cell phone number to get started, meaning your signal account is tied to your identity via your phone carrier
There are many services that will give you a temp number to sign up with for these services. I have many verified discord accounts, none of which are my actual phone number.
I don’t think you can use another number that isn’t the phone number tied to your device when you use Signal mobile app.
I have two phones and Signal refused to let ne sign in on phone a using phones b’s number.
This isn’t the site I normally use, but it’s another one:
You get a unique phone number, signal sends the activation text, you confirm the account. And they add the number to a blocklist so no one else can use that number and screw your account up. I’ve done it for Discord, Telegram & Signal. I have Signal running in Waydroid right now, without my phone number attached to it
You still need an Android/iOS primary device… it’s not just a SIM situation IIRC
Got this update message in signal earlier this week. Nice to see them moving in the right direction, but I guess the initial signup still requires a phone number.
"Your phone number will no longer be visible to anyone on the latest version of Signal unless they have it saved in their phone’s contacts. You can change this in Settings.
A new privacy setting lets you control who can find you by your phone number on Signal.
You can now set and share an optional username to let people chat with you without giving them your phone number. "
