This will just be the first of many. There have already been three documented cases in Ohio of minors who were sexually assaulted and were forced to go out of state for an abortion and thankfully since they could afford it.
But then again this is what Republicans support and want, the cruelty is the point because they think this thirteen year old asked for it. At least until it happens to their family and then they will be all about their moral abortion.
Hopefully, that won’t be the case much longer in Ohio with November’s ballot question. (the GOP just failed to make it harder to pass by trying to make all constitutional amendments require 60% to pass after polling showed it would by 58%)
Classic GOP byline. It’s their fault until it’s their kids (or their baby, republicans have a long and arduous history of sex crimes)
If you think it’s a better moral outcome for a 13 year old child to have their rapist’s baby than an abortion you’re a monster.
The people who didn’t want her to have an abortion, there’s likely a very high % of them who believe she did something to obviously tempt her rapist
It’s those sinful short shorts kids wear these days, practically naked. Definitely deserved it /s
(Sadly I have heard this exact argument from many christo-fascist theocracy supporters…)
I would push back on that ever so slightly.
If someone even a child, chooses to carry their rapists baby, that’s their choice.
AKA: no one should be forced either way, aka pro-choice
Its disgusting that this happened in the first place- but abortion is legal in Mississippi in the case of rape. According to the article the mother didn’t know of the exception. I’m confused as to why no doctors informed her though.
I was raped when I was 14 years old. That was 35 years ago and despite years of therapy I still deal with that trauma. I cannot imagine what this child has gone through, to deal with being raped then forced to give birth to her rapist’s baby. My heart goes out to her and her family. Someone needs to let her know she matters.
That someone better not be a republican because we know for certain they don’t give a fuck about her.
For the love of everything, I wish Americans go to vote on the next elections
Truth!!!
I am not from the US, but from my point of view all republicans are evil. No exceptions, if you’re a republican reading this: fuck you, you evil piece of trash.
A lawyer at the Nuremburg trails defined evil as the absence of empathy. That’s exactly what this is.
No you’re right. They’ve given up fundamental human qualities and are therefore less than human.
are therefore less than human.
Woah. We can demonize them and call them monsters without going down this path. Dehumanizing is one of the steps along the way to bad endings. They’re hateful trash but they’re still humans. Just hateful trash humans.
Forcing the birth of child rape victims is right on the list of someone showing they are a vile subhuman (where it’s also amazing the poor girl didn’t die - and let’s not forget how the same vile subhumans are all about taking away whatever social services the victim needs). This is not exactly making up stories to paint a group as subhumans - they are demonstrating why they deserve to be considered garbage and viewed as such.
Now here is the funny thing though - find your common conservative and they will probably claim they don’t support this - but yet they did and will, because that’s what they have been frothing at the mouth for decades already - now they see their handywork, and claim it’s not theirs. They are truly lost and broken (until it happens to them, then their daughter or granddaughter absolutely deserves the medical procedure). Utterly broken individuals
They aren’t humans, they’re cold blooded lizards
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Understand that American political parties are umbrellas of smaller political groups. So not all Republicans are evil, but a lot are.
If you sit down at a table with 10 Nazis, there are 11 Nazis at the table.
The correct term for nazi sympathizer is nazi. The correct term for nazi enabler is nazi.
What if you don’t know they are Nazis until you sit down? Like if they are all wearing their gear. Totally easy to spot. But if they just dress like every other person, how can you tell?
Vet your associates.
Yeah, no. If you help facilitate this, you’re evil. End of story.
Sure, but anyone who votes for Republicans are propping up this stuff. Not all Republicans are evil, but anyone who willingly votes for Republicans support evil, so there is no difference.
I disagree, the umbrella goes right back to the main center case and point. Even if you don’t directly support this you are still affiliated with a party that pushed it and that makes you indirectly associated.
Repubs can go fuck themselves.
What’s wrong with people here?!?!
I don’t agree banning abortion but saying all republicans are evil is a faaaar stretch. I think the far left is just as insane as the far right.
Just look at what’s been going on with the trans kid stuff. Why the hell would you permanently alter a child via surgery so young?
Chill out and realize there are crazies on both sides.
Why the hell would you permanently alter a child via surgery so young?
That’s not typically what happens. You’ve swallowed the bullshit.
Gender affirming care for children is typically reversible, such as changing clothing, changing hair, puberty blockers (which can be safely stopped), etc. You opened your mouth and immediately proved that you haven’t really tried to understand the situation.
To my understanding, there hasn’t been enough evidence to prove that either way. That’s the problem, they are essentially being experimented on and abusing a parent’s fear to do it. Then some states are now forcing some of these practices into law which I know can have severe side effects.
I recommend watching this speech first: https://youtu.be/DWbxIFC0Q2o
And then maybe an interview with someone who regretted their surgery: https://youtu.be/6O3MzPeomqs
To be clear, I’m saying one side is completely bad is what I’m mainly calling out here. There isn’t “The bad side”, there’s extremes that have gone too far.
I am transgender. Have been my whole life, but I realized it at 12. Socially transitioned at 14, physically transitioned at 16 (because you can’t physically transition before then because doctors, shockingly 😲, fuckin’ know what they’re doing). The things I struggled with, mentally, before i began to transition at all, caused me to make attempts on my own life. Lots of teens succeed, because people won’t allow them fucking find peace in their own bodies. Teens. Children. Killing themselves. Because of stupid rehtorics like the one you’ve just spouted. Fuck off with that same old bullshit paranoia and fear mongering.
Amen sibling.
I spent 10+ years trying to kill myself as a child because who I was was never accepted. By 17 I had an end (pun intended) goal to stop being alive at my 18th birthday.
I’m 35 now and literally have no idea what I’m doing with my life or any real goals because I never planned to be alive this long. I’ve been faking it since I passed my 18th birthday.
But… You just said you were physically altered you when you are still considered a child. What would have been the issue until waiting until you are considered an adult?
While you may possibly be an exception, the first linked video gives counter points directly relating to what you are saying right now.
What would have been the issue? How about if they had more attempts on their own life and succeeded?
I prefer for my fellow Lemmy users to stay alive and mentally well.
Plus let’s remember they were working with a doctor who DID make them wait.
I think there was another comment that presented what most likely happened a little clearer and made much more sense. I think I can agree with. It mentioned breast reduction surgery which is already done on people 16 years old not relating to trans stuff. If that’s the case, it makes much more sense to me.
I was mostly pointing out the odd fact that the original argument was that there wasn’t surgery done on minors and then proceeded to support it by saying surgery was done on them while they were a minor.
While I understand the suicide aspect, there are alternatives to managing those kinds of issues that don’t involve surgery.
‘Both sides’. Someone’s defending evil bs, and it’s not me.
It’s been less than an hour since posting and both videos are over an hour. It seems like you didn’t take the time to listen to what I was trying to show.
That’s fine if you don’t want to take the time, but that seems disingenuous to me since you are posting what you did.
I don’t need to watch your propaganda to know the right is evil. It is, and nothing you can say will change that.
Firstly, you linking Jordan Peterson, who is known to spread negative propaganda about anything that isn’t pro cis-white male privilege and toxic masculinity is so laughable. It proves that you’re drinking the false news koolaid.
Secondly, there are people who regret the surgery for so many reasons including internalized transphobia, peer pressure, botched surgery by incompetent surgeon, etc. It’s VERY hard to get approved for gender affirming surgery. You need your family doctor, psychologist, and at least two other medical professionals to access and sign off on it.
Thirdly, cis-hetero kids have been assigned hormone blockers for many medical reasons and grew up to be adults with perfectly functional endocrine systems.
If you’re going to keep looking at things from a cis-straight perspective, then look at the same medical practices and procedures that are performed on cis-straight kids. You’ll see that they are safe enough to not warrant any of this bullshit fear mongering from idiots like Jordan Peterson.
P.S. Surgery is done on intersex kids all the fucking time to make them conform to the gender binary against the child’s consent and there is much more harm done there than there will ever be for trans kids to get gender affirming care.
P.P.S. Circumcision is also surgery done against the consent of the child, and definitely immoral when done not for religious reasons, and yet it’s still a very common and openly accepted practice in the USA.
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https://piped.video/6O3MzPeomqs
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And then maybe an interview with someone who regretted their surgery
My understanding is that the regret category is ~1%. I have a few trans friends and none of them have regret. Small sample size, but it’s a realworld selection. I’m curious if you know any trans people?
You have fallen for propaganda my friend. The first surgery trans people have access to is breast reduction surgery which requires the sign off of a guardian at age 16… the same time surgery is available to cis kids. You don’t get access to bottom surgery options until you are an adult able to sign off or unless you basically have a consensus of desperate need - essentially those who are a high suicide risk and that is where the social workers, therapist, pediatrician and endocrinologist all need sign off on it and in that case the age limit is still 16.
The problem a lot of people do not realize is how confident the diagnostic and projected outcome needs to be for anything to be done to children. There is solid reason why the system has not faced litigation by a bunch of trans kids who have gone already gone through this system and are now adults.
A lot of people think transness comes from some sort if woo woo belief but in actuality the diagnosis is based out of consistent reactions to stimuli and often a host of quality of life destroying mental health conditions that arise from being forced to not express their identity. The field of psychology has been obsessed with trans people since the beginning of the field and we are approaching the century mark of the first bottom surgeries. It is a fair constant (that baring a few specific mental disorders) that people do not take medicine unless the side effects and risks are lesser than the pain they are experiencing or will experience.
We need cis people to stop reacting emotionally to trans health care with some kind of existential terror that there are mad scientists itching to hurt kids and remember for a second what it is like to seek treatment in a healthcare system and the chain of ethics and liability that exists in the field.
Thank you for taking the time responding. I appreciate your thoroughness. If that’s the case with the surgeries, than it doesn’t seem as bad considering it’s the age limits that are regularly there.
From what I’ve experienced, people just say I’m wrong, not explain themselves. Most people in the comment section seem to have painted me as outright evil and done the exact same thing.
I do have some reservations due to how I see the trans movement portraying themselves as a whole. I’m being called for completely falling for the propaganda, but that goes both ways. For example, I’m pretty sure there isn’t sufficient evidence to prove puberty blockers are completely reversible. That would take at least maybe 10 years to get good initial data, but it would probably need to be a long term study that goes even longer.
Back to my original point I was making, there are extremes on both sides I think are absolutely crazy. Just as you point out that the information from the side I lean on more definitely has some ridiculous things stated, same is for the other side. Unfortunately, those are the loudest usually.
I just want to reiterate how much I appreciate the time you took to write out your response. It was refreshing to see.
Well you are in luck on the side of puberty blockers. They were introduced and approved for human use in the early 90’s first for precocious puberty but trials for trans kids using them for a longer period was a thing in the early 2000’s. Wr definately have our ten years of data. The only thing is that trans issues were not a political talking point at the time. It really is the case of people hearing about this thinking it is new because they just learned it existed. Also it has been demonstrated you can go through another puberty at any age with horomone therapy which we have been refining for trans usage since the 60’s so we got some good long data on that.
There are dimensions of the fight for trans kids that lie in other places. If you do not pass as your gender as an adult due to a society that polices rigid gender expression you face things like soft travel restrictions because someone might harm you abroad or detain you mid transit, you face higher incidences of harassment, assult or exclusion by strangers because your transition is visible at a distance. You have more likely to have higher instances of digestive issues because you can develop massive anxiety around public bathrooms. If you are a woman whose puberty caused you to grow to be over 6 ft and have wide shoulders and a chiseled jaw there is no available elective surgery that takes you out of that box. Overall if you stick out you risk getting hammered down and that is a lot scarier to trans people than a loss of fertility which is the only solid side effect. There is also hope that in the future gender related surgeries will one day support full reproduction capability but nobody is particularly holding their breath.
If you want to stop the pressures on trans kids to make acceptance of themselves more viable supporting non-binary identities and non-traditional presentations and taking a hard look at the effect of gender policing is a good start. Some trans people are surgery and medical intervention adverse so there are options for those in healthier more accepting societies to find middle ground. A lot of the propaganda totes up the more whimsical non-binary identities as being signs of delusion but the reality is that there are underlying coping mechanisms being used to accept a social and physical half way space. If you can construct social safety for those groups you reduce the overall pressure to physically conform.
I think you’ve brought up some good points for me to think about. Could you point me in the right direction for the studies you are referring to? I wouldn’t mind looking at them myself.
If you are interested in specifically long term prospective effects of puberty blockers the reason we had support for the trials on children is because there are naturally occuring conditions like Androgen insensitivity syndrome where people grow up with the chromosomes of a male person but their body develops as phenotypicly female because their body chemistry cannot read their horomones. These and other intersex conditions meant we weren’t going in blindly because we studied adults into advanced ages who never actually went through a regular puberty so we have a raft of information of different forms of naturally occurring puberties outside of the male and female binary. In the case of blockers the idea is not to use these measures very long term because there are escalating side effects for folks once they hit their mid 20’s but nobody is advocating for anybody to mimic intersex conditions artificially for that long. Sixteen- seventeen is considered the upper end and those are the ages kids with the signoff of their adult guardians can start making decisions about HRT.
The book A Comprehensive Guide to Intersex by Jay Kyle Peterson is a good place to start if you want to understand the various forms of conditions that contribute to our understanding of sex development.
Getting into the weeds of the history of Transgender DSM and puberty blocking treatment trials is not the easiest to do because there is a lot of politically motivated hijacking of the algorithm but here is an early documentation from an early trial in 1998 and a guide developed for paitent selection criteria from 2001. You will notice some outdated nomenclature and the DSM has since been refined and updated since :
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9879847/ http://www.genderpsychology.org/transsexual/hbsoc_2001.html
Anecdotally it’s not a bad idea to get to know some trans folks who share their experiences about going through the system to get a sense of what the system is like and what the problems experienced by the people in the system are.
This is Alexander who went through the US system and describes what it was like. https://youtu.be/a4r0CoXsGmk
Jamie went through the UK system and now has his PHD in Psychology specializing in studying transgender development and wellbeing. https://youtu.be/lWngA08D9LU His videos center around either information or trans/annti-trans memes.
And Abagail Thorn has an MA philosophy , is a playwright and actress in the UK who uses the medium of philosophy to expound on many aspects of trans life. She does a very good job citing her sources but is also very entertaining in her presentation on subject matter. This is her video about going through the system as an adult. https://youtu.be/v1eWIshUzr8
Thank you for the links. It’s going to take me some time to go through it all. Have an upvote!
I watched most of video from Alexander so far and plan on finishing it. Seems like good stuff from a fairly reasonable person so far. Its giving me topics that I can use for further research on this to help develop my opinion.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/a4r0CoXsGmk
https://piped.video/lWngA08D9LU
https://piped.video/v1eWIshUzr8
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Yes not all repubs are evil, some are just stupid. But let’s not ‘bith sides’ this.
Repub and evil come hand in hand. The current gop is not your grandpappys Republican Party. It’s much worse and if you choose to remain a Republican, you are agreeing with the bullshit and are complicit in the treason, racism, sexism, etc that’s taking place. If you have an “R” by your name as a politician, you’re a fuckhead. When citizens go to vote and they vote Republican, they are a fuckheads.
I don’t agree with either side in today’s climate. I go as an independent. There are pieces of good policy on both sides.
I’m not a fan of Trump, not a fan of Biden. Voted Biden because I definitely didn’t want Trump.
Ameristan. What a shithole.
“It’s about protecting the kids!”
Says everyone who supported this ban
“actually, it’s about protecting MY kids, who I would NEVER let this happen to, who fucking cares about some OTHER parent’s child?”
The next move for republicans is parental rights for rapists. The party of forced birth for child brides.
You’re behind. That’s already happened a few times. Here’s a couple examples.
https://news.yahoo.com/man-raped-12-old-awarded-114904992.html
This made my stomach turn so I wanted to see if I could find out about the judge in the 2nd link who gave the order. It appears he changed the decision and this was a bit of an admin error (although not sure on the details).
https://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/2017/10/judge_reverses_decision_granti.html
🤮🤮🤮
Party of “family values.”
If Republicans didn’t stand for forced birth after abuse, most of them wouldn’t be able to produce children
Reading this made me sick to my stomach, she’s just a child… the US looks more dystopian by the day…
According to some u.s states, she’s a year past marrying age
what
w h a t
Like Utah, dumb-dumb-dumb dumb-dumb
uhhhhhhh i cant tell if your being /srs or /j so ill just assume the latter
No, that’s the wrong assumption.
How many states allow 12 year olds to marry?
In fact, 27 states do not specify an age below which a child cannot marry, including California!
https://fox2now.com/news/missouri/missouri-lawmaker-defends-12-year-olds-getting-married/
Religious fanaticism conquers democracy in USA. Annihilating minority and human rights, and even simple decency.
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This country fucking sucks bad enough…and then we have Mississippi. One of the dumbest, poorest, and most religious states. Oh…and it’s a red state. Who would have thought? We’re surrounded by fucking religious idiots.
What do voters think they’re getting by voting Republican? It’s not a better state, that’s for sure
Their enemies suffer. It’s all they want.
True. If they could kill 3 conservatives but 2 liberals died they’d do it
If you haven’t been to Mississippi or the south in general I suggest visiting, because it may give you a more nuanced perspective. Rural America - and the south especially - has been exploited for profit for the last several generations. Farming is no longer a viable profession because of big ag consolidation, skilled trades are on the decline because of outsourcing overseas, and land is bought up cheaply by developers to turn a quick profit with strip malls, to name a few examples. For those whose value in society has been diminished and marginalized, all of the traits you mention are more common. Without money it’s difficult to move to a place with better jobs or go without pay for the 2-4 years to complete a degree. It’s understandable why so many turn to religion when they have nothing else. Community has been bulldozed - physically for urban/suburban sprawl, and socially by our individualistic consumerist culture - and church is a place people can feel valued. Religious devotion is incredibly prevalent in the older generations of Eastern Europe who experienced the hardships of Soviet rule.
West Virginia was a blue state until the 2000s, when the Democratic party became out of touch with the working class (I’m not saying the Republicans are any more in touch because their messaging is very different from the policies they end up enacting). It’s not a person’s fault if they’re born into an impoverished family in a coal mining town and working as a miner is how they support themselves. But to belittle or even blame someone for doing this work an a sure way to alienate them.
The enemy is not our fellow citizens but the corporations, politicians, and elites who benefit by dividing us.
I wonder how many former pro-lifers this will create as people watch their younger siblings, cousins, and other loved one’s childhoods have their lives utterly ruined because they bought into theocratic propaganda about “the unborn”.
Every time something like this happens it should be proof that it was about control and cruelty towards women and girls.
Less than you think. These people do not hold punches with family. They might even be harsher on their own family since they “should know better” and “weren’t raised like that”.
On the LGBTQ front, families have done more damage to them than any random individuals ever did. These people will not hold back at calling their children whores for getting pregnant even by rape.
I’m operating on the basis that most people, do in fact, love their family members and want them to live happy, fruitful lives. If someone doesn’t want that for their loved ones then what I’m saying wouldn’t apply. Someone who is “normal” but not radicalized, in the sense that they may be reflective of society’s inherent prejudices and have views shaped by them, but are repulsed by overt displays of racism/sexism, would probably be horrified.
Love for them is synonym of keeping the baby even after rape. The baby is a gift of god even after a rape.
It’s disgusting but people really think like that after being brainwashed by the GOP and religion.
Not the people I’m talking about. Far more people hold partially formed, vague opinions about these things than believe in the Christian rights view entirely.
I think you would be sadly disappointed by the number of ‘normal’ parents in the world.
I disagree. The internet distorts people’s perceptions. “Normal” people support reproductive rights, no-fault divorce, and other common targets of the religious right because that’s what’s in line with how they actually and practically live their lives. Most people are mortified to hear about a 13-year-old being forced to give birth, that’s why the people who oppose abortion have all sorts of excuses (or outright claim the stories are fake) in these scenarios because they know what they’re defending is shocking to normal, well-adjusted people.
It’s not the internet we’re basing our perceptions on. It’s election results.
Unfortunately with the way elections are set up, it doesn’t properly show the will of the people. A winner takes all for congressional seats I’d say generally push only the extremes to the forefront.
There should be ranked choice voting to allow a better chance for third parties and to have a better allocation of representatives of what the people actually think and want.
Then you should be encouraged, every time it’s been on the ballot, abortion has been protected or expanded since roe was struck down. Just last week, Ohio voted down an amendment meant to make it harder for a pro-choice amendment legalizing abortion this November, which is also expected to pass. Politicians are acting in spite of voters.
I’m somewhat encouraged, but there are still far too many fascist voters for my comfort.
Quit saying “pro-life”. The very name they use for themselves is a disgusting lie.
I think that many people identify as pro life are simply ignorant, so if I want to change that, I’m not gonna get very far by calling them anti-choice because they’ll immediately shift into the defensive.
Oh you damn well know that these hypocrites would be the first one to go out of state on a mid-school year vacation to have their moral abortion.
Growing up in rural Midwest twenty plus years ago we all heard that gossip about a few questionable vacations.
The people who wouldn’t be swayed would fall into either the hypocritical category above, or are the people who would actually would cruelly force a family member to go through something akin to what happened in the article above, because they believe in the “blessing” or because they’re also forcing their kid to marry the rapist, but I’m referring to people who are otherwise well-adjusted but are ignorant of the wider world and have a sanitised view of abortion as something “out there” and “far away” from their life.
Anti-choice not pro-life. Pro-cruelty would also be acceptable.
Pro control as well.
I never say pro life and I correct everyone who ever does. Then I ask to list off the things that make them pro life and it doesn’t exist
I believe they will defend it since they literally see that fetus as a human being, thus an abortion is immoral in any and all situations.
Only the most radicalized of people, which I’m explicitly not referring to.
This shit makes me sick, fuck.
No. Don’t fuck. Not without a dong bag.
“Pro-life” strikes again. Apparently, “life” means being forced to endure rape and life-threatening birth-giving.
I think there’s a George Carlin quote about it, or if not him another comedian. They should be called pre-life because that’s all they care about. The minute you’re born you’re fucked.
Sure sounds like the kind of joke Carlin would have made. I was alive for most of his heyday and never really appreciated the guy until he was gone. :-(
It’s free to insist these unwanted pregnancies are brought to term.
Virtually all of them freely admit that they will actively fight any attempts to have society tangibly help this forced mother or unwanted child.
They literally want the child to be born because “pro-life” people revel in the cruelty of “I demand people I don’t like suffer as much as possible for my amusement and schadenfreude, and to be seen as virtuous for it!”
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If the state is going to mandate birth, then the state should be covering the cost of raising the child. Make Mississippi pay child support.
I think I’ve heard about some people getting away with using carpool lanes while pregnant on the basis that they had “two passengers” in some conservative states.
You should link to the full article.
