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- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
- palestine@lemmy.ml
Diplomats walk out on Israeli prime minister’s speech at UN to protest against devastating war on Gaza and latest attacks on Lebanon
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He is such a fucking scumbag. Fuck him and fuck the rest of Israel.
Fuck the USA, and every country too chicken shit to oppose a criminally corrupt sociopath committing war crimes to delay his own imminent corruption trial and imprisonment.
Fuck the USA government, you mean. I only live here, and all I get to do is choose between the lesser of two evils every 4 years. What a nightmare.
If you think you only get a choice once every four years, that’s part of the problem. There’s elections every single year, many of which you have more choice and more power over.
Maybe if people showed up to vote more than once every four years we’d actually see some effective change.
The US election system is set up for the rich and powerful to stay in charge. It’s ridiculous that there’s effectively only two parties, and it’s ridiculous that a single person, the president, holds so much power. No accountability. Their system needs an entire overhaul, IMO:
Compulsory voting Ease of access for voting Preferential voting Lower bar for running, meaning every citizen has the opportunity to run
The president sure gets the credit for a lot of things (the president signed this into law, the president enacted this policy) but in reality Congress makes most of that a reality.
There is also accountability… but only if the congress acts on it. Which is where that whole “vote more than once every four years” thing comes in. Congress has power… we just have not elected people who use that power responsibly.
We’ve also managed to wedge ourselves into a situation where Congress can’t handle anything controversial. The closest we came in recent years was the (relatively timid) ACA, and that barely passed after an unpopular war and the 2008 economic crash.
The US election system is set up for the rich and powerful to stay in charge. It’s ridiculous that there’s effectively only two parties, and it’s ridiculous that a single person, the president, holds so much power. No accountability. Their system needs an entire overhaul, IMO:
so then go and push/vote for voting reform, federally and more importantly at a state level, shit like IRV is very much within reach.
I always hear people bitching about the “no choice” of voting, but they never seem to be around during the primaries, when they could make a difference.
or voting for all lol.
Some people just like sitting around and bitching about things all day.
Elections that can affect things on a national level are still only once every two years. I vote in every election but going off on people who vote for but doing it often enough is just stupid.
Yes, but those state and local elections have an effect both on how your state and local area does… as well as how those national elections are held. They are far more important than you give them credit for.
Don’t downplay them just because they don’t get national coverage, especially when they’re going to have significantly more impact on your daily life.
Well yeah, obviously. If you blamed the entire population for its governments actions then every human alive is guilty.
Fuck the US government, and everyone who supports their crimes.
every human alive is guilty
We are, though, if we’re not actively doing our best to stop all this. We’re all at least necessary accomplices.
All candidates steer clear away from condemning Israel because they know they’ll lose votes if they do. Sounds like this one is on the people.
You’re a necessary accomplice. Organise. Burn shit up and build better things on top of the ashes.
wait ok, i’m confused why do we hate the US government? Is it because it’s doing global geopolitics shit? Like what’s the motive for caring about this, as opposed to like, stopping world hunger.
Like the motive for the latter is obvious, but i don’t really see the motive for the former. It just seems like yelling at a vast brick wall for no reason.
As an American I can assure you that there’s no shortage of reasons to hate our government. Don’t sweat it, just pile on all the reasons you want.
i mean yeah but like, what the fuck is the point? I hate a lot of things for stupid reasons, i feel like as far as the government goes, that’s something that i have a pretty direct involvement with that i can pretty directly influence change with. What’s the point being mad about it when i could be doing something about it instead?
I hate a lot of things for stupid reasons
I had to check to see if I was about to reply to myself.
based. You and me my friend, we think alike, which is probably not great, but hey the law of RNG strikes again!
I can tell you why I’m mad.
Because I want these atrocities to stop. And you know what I’m not given? That option. Trump has been a scourge to Palestinians and the Middle East as a whole, but Kamala Harris is spewing the same violent, bullshit rhetoric as the very man who was walked out on, that this thread is about.
Where is my option to vote for the end of this suffering?
And that’s just the topic of today. I could go on and on about how the the constitution allows for slavery as we speak, and it’s the reason we have so many prisoners per capita. Or how Hitler idolized America for its genocide of the native Americans and chattel slavery. Or how women were only allowed to have bank accounts in the last 50 years. Or the many, many governments we have overthrown or couped, only to install disgusting violent monsters who commit atrocity after atrocity. Or how we created ISIS and Al Quada. I could go on forever.
There are plenty of reasons to hate the US Government.
Because I want these atrocities to stop. And you know what I’m not given? That option. Trump has been a scourge to Palestinians and the Middle East as a whole, but Kamala Harris is spewing the same violent, bullshit rhetoric as the very man who was walked out on, that this thread is about.
ok so, is this because atrocities are bad? Are we concerned because this is an ongoing atrocity? If we’re talking about atrocity we can talk about human history, nearly every corner of human history has numerous atrocities throughout it. So it’s probably not that, and if it’s the fact that it’s ongoing, then what about other problems like lack of education access, lack of access to clean drinkable water, food security, security in general (there are a number of places like haiti under the control of military law under a gang/cartel right now) I mean there are hundreds of millions, possibly even a billion people that are undergoing what could easily be considered an atrocity.
Especially when we consider the current situation in Palestine, which is a long running military dispute with lots of history, the only scenario in which this is truly a terrible thing (to the degree that would be needed) is the position in which you consider colonization to be the ultimate evil, and that undoing it at all costs must be progressed towards. Which to me seems like a really reductionist take on moderns society, considering that basically every country ever has some level of colonization in it’s history somewhere.
I’m not trying to discount the palestine problem either, it literally has global attention, palestine could not be in a better situation right now aside from the fact that maybe israel could stop blowing them up. That’s LITERALLY the only problem here. Palestine is the GLOBAL target of humanitarian aid right now. It’s the global center of the geo political issues problem right now. They quite literally, could not be a better optics position right now, they couldn’t have any more support, and they couldn’t possibly be more equipped to deal with this, like i said, unless maybe israel stopped bombing them, that would be the only thing that could get better right now.
It can go even farther even if we consider the warcrimes that are almost certainly being committed right now, as well as things like the settlements, There are tons of bad things happening, but i just can’t help but feel like this is a major misdirection of attention on problems.
but i’ve waffled enough here.
Where is my option to vote for the end of this suffering?
there is none, because this is literally issues voting, and if you’re issues voting you’re going to be shit out of luck everytime, unless literal fascists get in power because they thrive on issues voting, but even then they may or may not agree with you, and if they don’t may god save your soul in that situation.
There is no political party for “stopping the conflict in palestine” because that party would be disbanded immediately after going into power because their entire singular goal would’ve been completed. Either that or they’re going to fumble constantly through the government trying to fix that one problem, only to not manage that, and then lose power because they did literally nothing.
This just isn’t how politics works, you never get a perfect solution to your issue, and if you are issues voting, well then i hope it works out well for you, it won’t but i sincerely hope it does.
like i don’t know what to tell you here, i have a lot of problems, but my biggest problem is probably the general societal actions towards certain modes of behaviors, but i’m not going to vote specifically to absolve that one issue, in fact i’m not going to vote at all over that, because that’s not even politically relevant since this isn’t a great example. Politically my biggest problem right now is probably trump and the right wing, but again, you don’t see me pushing for the “anti trump” party, i’m pushing for anti trump rhetoric, anti trump actions, and the general push towards securing our governmental institution from this problem happening again (hopefully)
And that’s just the topic of today. I could go on and on about how the the constitution allows for slavery as we speak, and it’s the reason we have so many prisoners per capita.
this is true, and the constitution also says that slavery is legal. The 3/5ths compromise is literally ingrained in it as well, however it’s superseded by a more recent amendment, but to give credit to your state, slavery is technically allowed under the guise of imprisonment. I.E. force labor in prisons, although most of the time, i don’t think it’s actually forced? I’m not sure if it’s even forced at all, we just don’t pay them fuck all.
Or how Hitler idolized America for its genocide of the native Americans and chattel slavery.
didn’t hitler also say that the jews “Created the big lie” and then proceeded to use the big lie in order to kill a bunch of jews? That guys opinion is not very citable. He’s also praised eugenicists as well so. Like being mentioned by hitler is pretty bad, but in our defense, we literally don’t do that anymore.
Or how women were only allowed to have bank accounts in the last 50 years.
Isn’t this a pretty common thing among recent history? Also that’s not a factually true point of time, that happened in 1971 proper, which is more than fifty years ago. 53 to be exact. It’s been a wacky four years so you should probably update that one lol.
Or the many, many governments we have overthrown or couped, only to install disgusting violent monsters who commit atrocity after atrocity.
to my knowledge, in most cases it was only common for us to support the extremists groups, and then wait until they get into power, and then use them to do some bidding of our own, but i’m not well read on the comprehensive history of the US and it’s foreign military affairs so i don’t know much about that one either. I’m not sure anybody really knows anything about it either to be honest.
Or how we created ISIS and Al Quada. I could go on forever.
i don’t see anything about how we created Al-Qaeda, Again for ISIS, i’m not seeing anything stating how we literally created them, but i am seeing things about how we supported them.
There are plenty of reasons to hate the US Government.
sure, but there are also plenty of reasons to like it as well, for example you’re allowed to say this shit without getting shot in the head. That’s pretty cool, you’re allowed to protest about this stuff, you’re allowed to hate the US government, and evidently to some capacity, you’re allowed to do a fascist takeover, though i disagree with that one on fundamental principles since fascism is objectively bad.
Another pretty cool reason, is that we literally helped stop the nazis. i could go on forever frankly/
why do we hate the us government
uhhhh where do you wanna start. I mean pick a year between 1776 and now. Pick a month, probably.
june of 1832, i wonder what kind of goofy shit happened that month.
Looking at the protests against him in Israel I think many if not most Israelis don’t want this campaign of violence. For many years I’ve felt sorry for all the civilians in that area, because they are trying to live their lives and extremist assholes on all sides keep killing them.
Settlers can go fuck themselves though.
Absolutely. They are extremist assholes.
The protests aren’t against his policy of genocide in Palestine.
They are against his government in general and started before his campaign of terror and I have seen no poll that would suggest sudden approval. So we can safely assume the protesters include that in their disapproval of him and his government of fascist cunts.
The protests happened after but they don’t seem to advocate a change in that campaign of terror, just different people carrying it out. The far right dominates Israeli politics and it’s all about which flavor of far right is preferred.
There were protests even before October, because a large portion of Israelis hates that government.
But, again, not for the treatment of Palestinians.
What is your point? That all Israelis fully support the wholesale slaughter the IDF is committing? It seems so weird and pointless to continue to argue about this.
including scores of women and children
This always assumes that there are no civilian men. I get that men are the ones usually conscripted, but… that’s always seemed weird to me.
It makes for a more defensible argument. No sane person is going to argue that a 4 year old child is an enemy combatant. But a 20 year old male? It’s easy to argue they could have been an enemy combatant and so maybe the numbers are inflated. Saying 1000 people can be interpreted as 999 enemies and only 1 civilian casualty. Saying 1000 women and children is usually interpreted as 1000 innocent lives lost.
Yeah, that’s true, but super fucked that women get the innocence of children and men are assumed to be not innocent in any situation.
Life is harsh when you’re a guy.
Given the Israeli position on military rape, it’s just a different flavor of attrocity.
They rape men too.
And they kill women.
But a 20 year old male? It’s easy to argue they could have been an enemy combatan
The age old problem of “excess males” solved by declaring open season on anyone with facial hair.
In Gaza casualty numbers any adult man is assumed to be a combatant by Isreal.
Anyone past puberty actually.
And a child is assumed to be a future combatant.
And woman a combatant factory?
They’ll probably start calling grains of sand terrorists.
Call to emotion, nothing else. Women and children “sounds” worse than “people” dying.
I mean, a score is 20. I think that means they’ve killed two thousand scores of people. “Scores of women and children” doesn’t really do that justice.
If he is still able to speak and be heard, then they arent loud enough. Every single person in that room needs to be screaming to demand his immediate arrest.
Good point, them leaving says I don’t want to be involved not that I want to stop the injustice.
It’s the only way they can express their revulsion at Israel, and the US who constantly block anything else they might try
No… It says “I won’t be a part of this”. It’s a desperate act.
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That sack of shit should have been arrested.
Cool. Now do something that stops him. Going for a coffee won’t save lives.
The UN is a forum for dialogue. Expecting the UN to do something other than either say stuff or help by mandate supported by countries just shows you don’t understand what their purpose is.
Walking out in this case sends the message. If these countries want to do something about it they can, other countries might intervene on Israëls behalf. The UN provides a forum to discuss this kind of stuff. So countries don’t end up in wars they did not want.
Maybe so… but I feel like this is one of the biggest mistakes in the post WWII order. Imagine what things would be like if the UN had more teeth (and no security council)
Imagine what things would be like if the UN had more teeth (and no security council)
well then russia would be right about NATO lmao
I don’t get what you mean… can you elaborate?
If the UN had those powers, it would essentially be what russia accuses NATO of being. A body with the ability to regulate bodies outside of it’s own jurisdiction.
Russia likes to shitpost about NATO being an existential threat to russia/china whatever, even though that’s not true. The UN would essentially become this version of NATO. Just not militarily, which is good enough for russia lol.
Ah yes… good point… thanks for explaining.
I have a hard time imagining how that would work. Because teeth would mean there is a mechanism that could ultimately force countries to supply warm bodies to do enforcement.
If these countries want to do something about it they can
Yes, but they don’t. They go grab a coffee. Look, I know many countries are very vocal about their disagreement. I’m just so pissed there are still others (mine included) that seem to be absolutely blind to any of the atrocities and respond with neverending loyalty. In my county I even understand that to a degree, but still I’m beyond pissed. Accepting the genocide your ancestors caused and the moral consequences of it shouldn’t result in accepting another one driven by former victims. What Israel does is vile and unacceptable. And I say Israel, not the Israelis or ‘the Jews’, because I’m not a complete idiot. But there are people who might use the antisemite card on this. Maybe because they are complete idiots, or because they are off the same ideals and moral as the Nazis. And this behavior sickens me.
Well yes, the risk that is present is that if countries where to openly intervene and wage war against Israël, the US would intervene on the side of Israel.
Talking in the UN allows them to weigh their options, which allows them to make more informed decisions. Regardless of the subject matter at hand.
I’m not talking about war with Israel. But condemning them. Stopping trade. Calling in diplomats. There’s a lot of granularity between peace and war.
Do you think this isn’t a condemnation by diplomats?
I think it is. As soft and vanilla as they get. Meanwhile people are dying by the hundreds and thousands a day. I’m not sure if the reaction meets the required pressure.
Only the US (or Israel’s Arab allies bought by the US) can do that and yeah.
The ignorance of this statement makes me embarrassed for you.
That’s ok, I don’t mind
why isn’t he arrested already? I wish I had similar privileges, where I could break laws (thst don’t violate human rights ofc.), make a shitload of money and travel the world freely.
Now if they would actually take action.
Don’t worry, they’ll pass another strongly worded resolution.
Which the USA will find a way to veto or Israel will continue to ignore it.
The latter. The US only has a veto in the Security Council. Though even that isn’t entirely unconditional. Recently it abstained on a vote about a cease fire resolution, leading to much entitled complaining from Israel.
We’ve always been good at walking away, closing our ears, turning a blind eye…
Cool, but did you stop giving money and weapons yet? No? Then your statement is as effective as “thoughts and prayers.”
The UN definitely has its problems but I’m not going to blame UN global representatives for the US paving the unilateral support for the genocidal terrorist nation state of Israel.
The UN does not supply arms to Israel. The UN has passed many resolutions condemning Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians, going back decades. They have literally already done everything the UN can do, many times over. They weren’t a governing body with binding powers over where the US sends arms, or who France chooses to support.
So I’d have to say that your comment is less effective than their walkout, because it isn’t even properly informed.
Bro do you even know what the UN is?
Thoughts and prayers for the world?
brother AI is a solution to “solve all of your business problems with your business and elevate your business to a level above all other businesses” are you unironically reading marketing speak this straight?
The veto power in the UN makes it not functional. When China, Russia, France, The United Kingdom, or the United States veto something it’s done, without debate or “peaceful resolution.”
US using it’s veto power 34 times against ending the war in Gaza.
Russia using it’s veto power against using war in Ukraine.
When the big kids in the playground can do everything they want there is no space for debate or peaceful resolution, everyone else just shows up.
People are indoctrinated to believe that because votes are involved the process is somehow magically subject to meaningful reform and input from the masses.
A process where people were meaningfully enfranchised wouldn’t need to rely on something so abstract as votes. Voting is a process by which people are convinced to trade in their actual power in exchange for a piece of paper.
Thanks for this, that’s a fantastic way to phrase it.
Thanks, I don’t think it’s worded quite right though, because “in exchange for” implies the vote itself does something. The reality is that people are convinced to give away their power because they believe in the piece of paper.
The oiece of paper itself is almost worthless.
I only say that because I’m sure someone will want to split hairs over it.
A process where people were meaningfully enfranchised wouldn’t need to rely on something so abstract as votes.
how is this one supposed to work? Just curious, since voting seems to be the only real method of direct representation, unless you’re suggesting a global at will military force, which, would be a thing.
Federated communities that make decisions on consensus, with the fundamental rule that “those affected get to decide”.
There’s a lot more to it and there’s a lot to unpack in just the above paragraph, but if the only alternative you can imagine is a global military dictatorship then it’s hard to know where to even start explaining it to be quite honest.
well yeah, you don’t want everyone to have veto power, because then nothing happens ever. The idea behind a few people having veto powers to is to establish some sort of protection for the big players, since they’re likely to be the most contested, though depending on how you set up the legislation and member functionality of it this may not be relevant at all.
TBF i have little to no knowledge of how the UN works, just that it is a thing.
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