if living in russia taught me anything, people in distress reduce themselves (and got reduced) to the most basic questions, like who is to blame, and populists have them like a piece of cake.
Most vatniks, not unlike MAGAs, don’t have answers to many questions, they want to be left alone to manage the hole they happened to be born into, and the promise of a candidate or ideology that does just that or even paints their quest as a herioic one, or a sacred sacrifice, would win again and again until there is someone to work with that and educate them.
They are used to live in shit and depend on themselves, don’t know anything better and become pretty jealous if others get that. Others having it worse, especially their ‘enemies’, kinda makes their own living more bearable. Their struggle is a downpainment for a mission of punishing the unworthy ones.
When a person is downscaled to that childish level of consciousness it’s impossible to reach them with rhetorics that don’t directly benefit them.
As long as they continue to be like that and their thoughts are unchallenged, they’d always vote maga.
And as they continue to vote against their own interests it becomes a self-perpetuating system.
If you look at the impacts to their lives from the Clinton presidency, it is understandable that they would think that Democracts are not necessarily working in their interests.
Clinton really did fuck us over, though I guess the Bosnians like him.
Well lets hope we can correct course and make changes, unless Trump triggers a civil war or removes too much load bearing duck tape from the federal government and it more or less implodes
Really well said
You can’t come at these people with facts.
Second in American health care. …
Obviously. What else would it be when comparing two American states.
a decent amount of americans seem to think they are the global best in every category so probably not obvious enough even.
I hate having to explain this to people when I talk about the insane cost of healthcare in the US.
“but US healthcare is the best so of course it’s going to be the most expensive”
No, you moron. It’s the exact same procedure by equally qualified doctors using the same equipment.
meanwhile here it’s generally not expensive, but we can’t seem to come up with a reasonable way for foreign doctors to gain canadian credentials and continue to have waits anywhere from hours to coming the next day instead
Another way to view this is that the poor are voting republican now. Trump won those making less than $100,000 handedly while Harris won those making above. Probably because he’s offering them a solution to there problems, deport the immigrants and bring manufacturing back. His plan is dumb and won’t work but at least he’s putting something forward unlike Harris who says everything will stay the same.
The democrats are slowly becoming the party of the out of touch elite, and memes like this don’t help. The democrats need to be putting forward solutions to those problems, and trump has shown it doesn’t matter if they’re viable or will actually help. If these “dumb poor people are rubes who will fall for anything” give them something to fall for. Say your going to tax the billionaires at 50% and use that money to pay for Healthcare and child care, don’t cozy up to them so you can raise another billion dollars to lose another election .
Probably because he’s offering them a solution to there problems, deport the immigrants and bring manufacturing back. His plan is dumb and won’t work but at least he’s putting something forward unlike Harris who says everything will stay the same.
This is exactly what I was pointing out to my friends. Every one of us are making six figures, and could not understand why anybody would vote Trump.
And I asked them how many people in their lives are poor, living paycheck to paycheck. I have family members who are working two or three jobs to get by. All the work Biden did is not being seen or recognized by them.
Are they are under-educated yokels? Are they morons for not keeping up with politics? You can call them what ever you want. Theyre still a voter.
Face it: what they’re hearing from Democrats vs what they’re hearing from Trump are pretty clear cut and we can stay in this echo chamber all we want on Lemmy. Those folks aren’t listening to us. They’re just trying to survive and will vote accordingly.
bring manufacturing back. … unlike Harris who says everything will stay the same…. The democrats need to be putting forward solutions to those problems
Perhaps like the CHIPS act or IRA? Instead of demogoguing, democrats followed through with actual investment in manufacturing, unionism, infrastructure. Supposedly 80% of that manufacturing investment went to red states
Is this one of these scenarios where people are too impatient with the time it takes to get a factory off the ground, so votes out the group making that investment over someone who’s “good for business” or at least taking credit ?
Yeah, but what about the vibes, man?
The chips act was more about national security then employment. Semiconductor manufacturing doesn’t require much labor and isn’t a mass employer. Even in Taiwan it only employs around 300,000 or 2% of people. Even if the chips act somehow brought all 300,000 of those jobs over here, which it wont, it would still be a drop in the bucket in the u.s.
The ira was better but was still limited in it’s effect. Most Americans don’t see the effect it had or don’t think they’re effected. You need universal programs that are easy to see the effects: Free school lunch, Medicare for all, raising the minimum wage, subsidized child care, student loan forgiveness etc.
Also I don’t believe Americans actually want to work in manufacturing. They really just want the stability, dignity and pay that union manufacturing jobs provided. If they got those from unionizing a Walmart or Starbucks then they’d probably be happier as those jobs are safer and less monotonous. This combined with the fact everything would get more expensive if it were manufactured here, no one could afford an iPhone built in america, makes me think the onshoring movement is a dead end politically and we should instead be focused on unionization.
Say your going to tax the billionaires at 50% and use that money to pay for Healthcare and child care, don’t cozy up to them so you can raise another billion dollars to lose another election .
That was basically Harris’ tax plan.
What Would Kamala Harris’s Tax Plans Mean For You? | Kiplinger - https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/kamala-harriss-tax-plans-2024
It doesn’t matter what your platform is if it’s not communicated effectively to the median voter
How do you communicate effectively to someone with their fingers in their ears screaming nananananananana? Please advise, oh political oracle.
Trump seemed to get through.
Democrats are forbidden by their patrons from using too much populist rhetoric. That’s the number one reason why they fail to connect with what has become a very populist country, thanks to decades of wealth transfer to the top.
Bernie used populist language and the Democratic establishment pulled out all the stops to give us “anybody but Bernie”. Now we are living the consequences.
So basically you lie to them and tell them what they want to hear? Stoke fear of “the others” among them to keep them scared and angry?
Yeah, no, I’m good.
Is that what you think Bernie does?
People are scared and angry already. Not everyone has the financial stability you apparently do. Republicans focus that fear on the powerless. Democrats pretend it’s not there. You can’t respond to struggling families with “the economy is great!”
What’s neat is that you appear to have internalized the conservative view of the Democratic machine in this country. They are completely incompetent…but also such shadowy and powerful figures they control what everyone says and does and control who votes for who…except when it comes to republicans who these scary shadowy figures are unable to competently manipulate ever…
If you want to argue today that the Democrats aren’t failures at fighting Republicans and specifically Trump, I would love to hear that argument.
There was nothing “shadowy” about the “anybody but Bernie” effort in 2020. They might have preferred it to be quieter, but I think just about every relevant detail of that scheme leaked, and it played out quite transparently. Are you arguing that it didn’t happen?
It’s not as much about competence as it is about perspective. The Democratic establishment is somewhat competently running strategies that are well suited for the 90s but completely out of touch with where voters are today.
Ah yes, now that you made fun of the prior commenter, we have convinced the world and now Kamala is president?
Bernie is fucking right.
?
You lumped a huge percentage of people as putting their fingers in their ears.
Maga is going to vote maga. And there’s a huge chunk that didn’t vote or were surprised Biden dropped out. Those folks didn’t put their fingers in their ears. Like Bernie said, they were ignored.
People who were surprised 5 months after Biden dropped out didn’t have their fingers in their ears in your version of the world? I think you and I mean very different things by that phrase.
Let Bernie be Encharge. I am jealous that the US has Bernie. Seeing all this shit storm from afar, I now just believe the US doesn’t deserve Bernie at all. He is too good for the US.
With all the fucking TV ads and mailers the campaign spent billions on. If the average voters is just covering there ears then why spend so much on advertising or why even campaign at all? Yeah some people are like that but they’re deep in the maga cult, there’s still a large amount of people open to both sides if the messaging is right that decided this election. Harris’ messaging didn’t work though.
I mean the marketing was effective. A lot of people including Donald trump thought he was going to lose. Just not effective at getting people who support Biden to get off their ass.
You go on Joe Rogan for one. Kamala ran the last presidential campaign that will ever rely so heavily on the legacy media apparatus. This whole cycle proved that they are only broadcasting to themselves and real people are elsewhere on podcasts, twitter and YT.
She did go on Call Her Daddy.
She was on traditional media? I guess I wasn’t there to see either candidate. I only saw both online
deleted by creator
Who do you think the people putting their fingers in their ears are, in this case?
Check out leopards eating faces for the next few years…those people, whether it’s moms surprised the education department is again going to punish their kids, Muslims surprised trump hates Muslims and wants them eradicated, EV company owners who think being allowed to support means being part of the narcissists inner circle, Latinos shocked that their friends or family members there illegally won’t get special protections no matter how many times McCarthy rears his head.
“EV company owners” aside, most voters in this country just want something to change, and they’ll vote for whoever promises the most of it. Harris’ campaign didn’t do anything nor promise anything that resonated, and practically everything she said ended up morphing into her highly-rehearsed stump speech. No talks about Medicare for All, no talks about the minimum wage, no talks about legalizing weed, and kowtowing to the right on border policy by accepting the ‘crisis’ framing. Harris also failed to address the situation in Gaza in a way that mattered, even though it was a major issue for undecided voters in key states like Michigan. Over 100,000 Democratic primary voters there cast an uncommitted vote over Biden’s handling of Israel and Gaza, which is more than the margin by which she lost the state.
The right took advantage of this. An EV company owner paid a PAC to distribute ostensibly pro-Harris pamphlets in predominantly Arab neighborhoods in Michigan saying she was the most pro-Israel candidate on the ballot. The right helped put abortion rights directly on the state ballots as propositions, letting people believe the choice could be separated from who they voted for (see Florida, where the proposition lost at 57% support when the state voted roughly the same percentage for ol Don).
Harris had a potential base on the progressive left, but the DNC insisted on tweaking her campaign to try to win over right-moderates. That doesn’t work anymore, precisely for the “sticking fingers in ears” attitude you mentioned from right-wing voters. It’s asinine for the DNC to continue to try and appeal to them, when the median Republican voter thinks Democrats are agents of a satanic agenda. Regardless, the message the DNC seems to have gotten from Nov 5 was that they lost this election because they failed to move to the right hard enough. The ratchet effect continues.
As a side note, I know several trumpets who would’ve voted for Sanders in 2016 were he the Democratic nominee, and would’ve voted for Walz even this election were he the main guy on the 2024 presidential ticket. Such people are not very coherent ideologically, they just want someone in who has big ideas.
Unfortunately, it’s just not enough to be “not the other guy”, even if the other guy is a convicted felon, rapist, and just all-around a downright awful human being.
edit: grammar and wording in a couple spots
Many of those people will inexplicably be against a 50% tax on billionaires for two reasons: 1) they have no concept of how progressive tax brackets work, and think that means they’d be taking literally half that person’s wealth, and 2) they believe that one day they could be in that situation, and when they are, they sure as shit won’t want to pay half of their wealth! (spoiler alert: they won’t)
And until we can change this type of thinking, we will never make those people pay their fair share.
This is what decades of American Exceptionalism, and Rugged Individualism, does to a nation; Empathy dies, and it becomes every man for themselves.
The Democrats must be doing something right, if their states have better everything.
Maybe if the Republicans would listen to us, we could all have the best schools and hospitals.
They don’t have better retention rates.
CA, NY, IL and MA are all in the top 5 for states that have the most people leaving.
TX, FL, NC and AZ are attracting the most people.
Massachusetts has priced out average people. If you aren’t the inheritor of some generational wealth you have a better chance of being upwardly mobile elsewhere.
That really has mostly to do with the high cost of living. And it’s going to be high in an area inhabited by businesses on the cutting edge of technology. Those jobs have high wages because they need highly educated people, and highly educated people come from the best universities in the country, many of which are in Boston, and Cambridge. Not to mention the great schools in commuter range in Providence and Worcester.
Red states don’t have higher education, and they don’t have innovative industry, so they don’t have the population density issues that blue states have.
Maybe if red states had these things, they’d have a high cost of living, too.
Most of the people fleeing MA for those states are working remotely for their companies still in MA. Mostly DINKS and young (primarily male) single professionals that don’t really have public education or healthcare as any sort of immediate concern. That’s gonna lead to problems when the average age of red state populations inverts itself. Better make sure that they can’t not have babies.
And yet. Manufacturing was down under trump in 2016 even before covid hit and under Biden manufacturing is the highest it’s been in decades.
So according to you it’s worse to acknowledge we can’t go back in time than to lie to people and promise that which we (in the 3rd party pov sense, meaning NYC republicans) actively subvert every day? One would have to be exceptionally stupid and stubbornly uninformed to believe this is reasonable.
No, the point is to come up with solutions, ANY solutions. Democrats aren’t even in the game, so the other guy gets to eat the pieces.
The solution proposed was stop mining coal and learn to make modern devices, I think.
That’s like saying you’ll fix unemployment by just getting people jobs! Great… How?
Damn, did know that. Carry on Massachusetts and the Oklahomans fail to learn and continue to eat shit.
This type of meme isn’t helpful when people already think the Dem Party isn’t for working class people and elites only lol. Trump listened to people issues about material needs even if he lied. It still worked. Harris and Dems went on the whole time not addressing issues with the economy. Adopting a real working class agenda and free college would do wonders and putting resources to getting the crazy folk away from Education.
Ever been to MA?
Crapton of working class people there. I mean a lot. It is possible to have top-tier education and health care yet have working class people in the same State.
Being a rural state does not by default equate to “working class”. If anything it probably means more people per capita on government assistance or in poverty.
Working classes don’t need healthcare or education? Quality of life is irrelevant? A strong economy doesn’t matter? One of the highest minimum wages doesn’t affect working class? I
Free college (depending on income)doesn’t matter?
i think you’re missing their point. the working class does want these things, but the meme reinforces the idea that the dems only take care of the rich.
“the people” seem to want to change ‘THEYRE SEATING THE CATS, THEYRE EATING THE DAWWGS’…so, fk if “the people” know what they want.
How? Does Massachusetts not have working class people in it? Is it a state comprised entirely of the wealthy?
im not saying i agree with this interpretation. just that the meme reinforces an erroneous causal relation depending on the bias of the reader. im dont know these places very well, but im used to seeing govenrments treating lower class neighborhoods with less attention. its a common perception.
No it doesn’t. Massachusetts is full of working class people.
I think you might be confusing cause and effect here. Perhaps the people in MA are “rich” (I would say, doing well. There are tons of working class people in MA, they’re just not necessarily living in squalor) because the dems took care of them. Almost as if we have tons of data backing this up… That Democrats consistently do these types of things, while Republicans constantly walk them back.
Misses the actual pain points. These are good things objectively but these are not the things that people want change
And yet people in Massachusetts generally elected not to change. Maybe not as big a majority as expected, but by a solid amount. Maybe all it takes is paying attention to healthcare, education, quality of life, free college, etc. maybe we have at least one model and all we have to do is follow it, instead of negativity and blaming mysterious pain points that you never actually identify
Maybe we’re learning that democracy fails when the people vote for the things they want over things that they objectively need.
Are Chicago, Detroit, Philadelphia and Pittsburgh not “working class” cities? I think there are a whole lot of people who would like a word with you for writing them off.
Almost as if working class people don’t have to be stupid.
CHADachusetts completely topping Cucklahoma
Jokelahoma
Maybe they voted against the incumbent so overwhelmingly because things are hard.
People vote based on their feelings.
When they were feeling pain, the message from the Dems was about how great the economy was, but the reality is that the stock market and GDP don’t speak to the quality of life of these people. To them the Dems saying how great things were was dismissive of their real concerns.
Meanwhile, Trump latched onto their fears and concerns. Yeah, his policies are idiotic, and millions will suffer and be in worse shape. But when they said they couldn’t pay the mortgage or buy groceries, he listened. The Democrats didn’t because they’ve abandoned the working class that should be their backbone.
Maybe they voted against the incumbent
I wouldn’t be so confident about assigning such motivation.
They haven’t been unanimous in the counties all those times.
So then the trend is getting reder with time then? I don’t see your point.
It’s not saying 100% of people always vote red. But the majority have for a VERY long time.
Yes. it got redder across the country this election.
But the point, for this population and this meme, is that they have consistently voting in the same people and the results they have received are similarly consistent, and they keep voting that way.
Yes broadly there’s been a “vote out the incumbent”, but this illustrates why that’s misguided, as it illustrates the different results of two states with consistent policies for each party.
Not even just consistently, the person accidentally made the point for them that they’ve actually gotten more red over that time. So they’ve somehow kept convincing more people to vote for them despite them never doing a thing to help them.
Again, not really sure what point your trying to make?
When an entire country shifts away from a party, it means the party is doing something to drive them away. Trump is the worst candidate in the history of the country, yet he’s won 2 elections. Why is that?
It’s because the Dems have abandoned the economic policies that formed the heart of their party and lost the working class vote they’ve relied upon since the Depression.
Well that and the fact Trump has a cult of personality that will only disappear when he dies.
Time is a circle.
when is it from?
Probably from 1972 when Nixon swept the country, except Massachusetts and DC
I love the “Have you actually considered that the state doing the worst under consistent Republican policy is voting because they’re unhappy with the DEMONRAT status quo???”
They really don’t give a shit about consistency in their arguments. People have or lack responsibility for their moral and political choices according to whatever suits their “LIBERALS BAD” talking point of the day.
Republicans have had a vice grip on our state and local politics for 40 years…BUT ITS THE LIBRULS FAULT
Uh…Hawaii? West Virginia? Rhode Island?
These are also states, yes.
When plebeians do something that makes sense to them, but not to him, the “Intellectual Yet Idiot” uses the term “uneducated”.
- Nassim Taleb, Skin in the game
Now do healthcare and quality of life
The hidden costs of health care are largely in the denial of antifragility. But it may not be just medicine—what we call diseases of civilization result from the attempt by humans to make life comfortable for ourselves against our own interest, since the comfortable is what fragilizes.
Less Is More
For instance, a small number of homeless people cost the states a disproportionate share of the bills, which makes it obvious where to look for the savings. A small number of employees in a corporation cause the most problems, corrupt the general attitude—and vice versa—so getting rid of these is a great solution. A small number of customers generate a large share of the revenues. I get 95 percent of my smear postings from the same three obsessive persons, all representing the same prototypes of failure (one of whom has written, I estimate, close to one hundred thousand words in posts—he needs to write more and more and find more and more stuff to critique in my work and personality to get the same effect). When it comes to health care, Ezekiel Emanuel showed that half the population accounts for less than 3 percent of the costs, with the sickest 10 percent consuming 64 percent of the total pie.
- Nassim Taleb, Antifragile
This doesn’t really tell the fully story, 1/3 of MA’s pop. Still voted for Trump…
This shocked me the most. I thought we would be a darker shade of blue than ever, despite what other state voters do. I’m so disappointed
Massachusetts is also 4th in the country for states with the most people leaving to live elsewhere.
No doubt due to cost of living because Massachusetts is ridiculously expensive. The friends I have there are either leaving or totally resigned to not owning a house or ever retiring. Comparing a historically important coastal population center to a historically poor and strategically insignificant flyover state doesn’t prove much.
The states with highest domestic emigration (e.g. people voting with their feet to leave) are overwhelmingly left leaning. (Except for Louisiana and Ohio)
So progressive places make a place so desirable to live in that people are willing to compete with each other for the experience.
“Why are blue states always so expensive?!”. It’s supply and demand. High demand to live someplace makes it expensive.
My million dollar house is worth as much as it is because of its located near high paying jobs, good school, and good neighbors. It’s expensive to live where I live because lots of people want to live here.
Yeah, but it’s supply and demand. I bet your million dollar home isn’t next to an apartment building. Cities would be much cheaper if it weren’t for NIMBYs who already own homes insisting that their homes must appreciate in value at all times.
There’s higher demand to live in Florida and Texas. Look at the domestic immigration numbers. People are leaving CA, NY, IL and MA in droves.
Yeah, crappy places are more affordable. “Look how cheap the shitty places are, let’s make the whole country shitty so it is cheaper” is a strange logic. Is rather bring everything up to MA standards so the supply is higher and demand isn’t driving prices up.
How is people leaving almost exclusively “progressive” places an indicator of competition?
Look at the inverse of that chart. Most people in the country are moving to places like Florida, Texas and Idaho.
Because shitty makes for cheap.
How is this confusing?
Wasn’t Oklahoma supposed to be given back to the native tribes? Like more than 50% of it?
Oklahoma was built on genocide. Is it any wonder those that govern it are garbage people.
