You can’t get rid of it, you can only hide it: Microsoft imposes controversial Windows Backup on users::Like it or not, the Windows Backup app installed in Windows 10 and Windows 11 is here to stay, with Microsoft calling it a “system component” that can’t be
Yup, that ai generated image kills me more than the news.
“YouTube face” is annoying enough scrolling through videos, but it’s even more unnecessary here!
AI generated porny chick
Tbf that’s my favourite kind of AI generated person
Could be real but filtered and low res. The lack of symmetry on the nose is unusual for AI. The teeth do look a bit weird though.
The article lists it as generated by midjourney
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coming soon: Monthly subscription to use windows with the justification that it uses an online service in order to work
“Embrace Extend Extinguish”
I can’t wait for the eventual warning pop-ups and emails, warning me that my onedrive is almost full (70%)
You can just say no to the tool and keep using whatever local backup you have.
Honestly I hope, would be a big boom for Linux which I already use
This year is the year of Linux, just like every year before it.
You joke but this
what do you mean by this
do u think a cloud pc (with constant server costs) shouldnt be a monthly fee?
I think this is likely the “new only Windows option” in the not so distant future. I think it shouldn’t exist.
And what will be the host from which you will run Cloud PC? Linux, macOS?
What sick moronic idiot would want a cloud pc that’s accessible via… a pc
Their primary use is enterprise not private consumers. Think of virtualized OS accessible over internet that you can manage/protect and provide for example to some random consultant. Or just provide more powerful PC on low end HW.
It’s costly though and not sure it ever gained traction because there always were alternatives like Citrix Desktops.
Maybe there’s a use case, but I’m anti-cloud and always will be. I struggle to think of a situation I couldn’t do better with in-house (or even air gapped) VMs of my own.
Anyone who watches 365 uptime knows that Microsoft’s cloud is a fragile laughing stock. They use a Twitter account because their own status portal is so laughably trash and unreliable. If you don’t believe me I don’t blame you. Here it is.
The day I trust any cloud platform (Especially Microsoft) is the day I promise to jump off a cliff.
I would say windows IoT would be the most likely to be prepackaged with new systems, since it’ll likely be a rolling changeover.
I’d expect that within 5 years that pretty much all home and business PCs running windows will be thin clients
Can’t imagine it being the case, thin clients have existed for a very long time and Cloud PC is nothing revolutionary just an additional offering from Microsoft.
Not to mention private consumers will not pay subscription for OS that in long run is a lot more expensive and worse HW that they probably already have.
I have a confident guess about what Microsoft runs theirs on… it ain’t Windows.
ugh ew thin clients that probably will work even worse
Still $129 for the initial license key, too
It’s been a thing for years already for enterprises
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I don’t see a problem with subscriptions for commercial software. Fixing bugs and security issues after release is an ongoing effort that costs money, so a one-time purchase isn’t really economically viable in the long run. I honestly wouldn’t feel comfortable using unmaintained software that might contain known but unfixed vulnerabilities.
As someone who advises on and implements software at work that would be sorta ok if these companies charging several thousand a year would actually fix bugs and provide proper support. Zendesk is a pretty big display of this: feature requests lay dormant in their support pages, the only way you can get support is through a chat where the rep will point you to an article you already read most of the time, updates that ever obfuscates settings into a dizzying amount of menus in the admin panel, and so on. All for a minimum of $55 a month per seat if you want email and calling. The issue is costs are sky high for practically no value
Have you checked how much money Microsoft have recently? Their current model doesn’t appear to be a problem for them.
You’re arguing a completely different point. Windows isn’t Microsoft’s only product by a long shot, so I don’t see how their money (whatever you mean by that, specifically) is the answer here. Also, every few years there’s a new Windows version which again costs money - almost like a subscription with bigger installments at longer intervals.
For those of you who are now worried about you win10 or 11 install:
- This is only for those using MSA account with windows 10 or 11
- You cannot uninstall the backup tool, but you can disable taking backups
Lastly, this article had 0 sources and was misleading
Reason #2720183 to use Linux.
Imagine how much better the computing landscape would be today if we actually prevented MS from doing anticompetitive and often straight-up illegal stuff in the 90s to gain their monopoly
Actually I kinda don’t want to, because we might not have been quite as driven to get Linux to the point it is at
That would require government oversight and accountability. Best I can do is regulatory capture and the continued gutting of American anti-trust law.
I know everyone hates the automatic response of “just switch to linux” in response to Microsoft’s BS. BUT, it’s really so true - more people need to just do it and get over their fear of linux. It has been a totally stable easy option for a long time now.
Install an easy distro like mint and you’re literally up and running in a gui environment in like 10 minutes. Your grandmother could run it no problem. For the gamers out there - a good chunk of your stuff just works these days, and you can always dual boot windows for that game that doesn’t perform well (even better just get a small cheap 2nd hard drive and you can’t screw it up).
Thank you to all the people who contribute to linux and have given us a totally viable alternate.
It’s just not that easy for a majority of people. It still takes some work and knowledge to do just about everything. From picking an distro, installing it and then running different programs. And games are far from perfect.
Linux doesn’t have a backup option?
Linux has so many options it’s ridiculous. It doesn’t force you to use them or to upload sensitive data to Microsoft’s servers—and therefore the NSA’s—though.
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Is that a question, or are you just keen for everyone to know you uptalk?
Linux can do literally any backup plan you want, to anywhere you want, with the click of a few buttons. You almost have too many options that all work great.
Doesn’t r sync also ship with like everything? Ya I know - a scary command line - but anyone online could help you in one minute. Ask a few questions, ok here’s this crazy long command that looks scary, but it’s really not that bad. Just run this command when you want to do a backup and your good. Come back here if you need help restoring (hint boot into another live environment and swap the source and destination and run it backwards)
Linux backups are cake.
It’s always sad to see users being mistreated like this but what never ceases to amuse me is the amount of time that Windows users are willing to waste in order to remove all this trash from their systems and have a usable experience, only for it to be ruined again with something worse with the next update. At this point, they either don’t know that alternatives exist or they have Stockhom syndrome or something.
I used to do that A LOT and you can still find all my old guides on my website as a testament to that, they were soooo long, it took hours to do a “clean install”, they took days to write, and even then I would run into so many issues because of Windows Update… One day I realized that I was doing more work to make Windows usable than the average Arch user and I just gave up. Linux wasn’t ready for gaming yet so I had to dual boot for a while, but thankfully that’s not a problem anymore. I couldn’t be happier.
I’m aware of all of this, but most of the software I use is Windows only. Recommending GIMP/whatever seems like enough to a proud Linux user, but it really just doesn’t cut it. I’m savvy enough to get rid of all the stuff I hate about windows or switch to Linux, but I’m comfortable enough to stay with wondoes
I only run Linux on my server, but even so I feel like I can run almost everything I ever use on Windows, or an equivalent on it. MacOS exclusive apps are actually a bigger problem for me.
For image editing, GIMP was commonly recommended like a decade+ ago, and it’s still a decent option if it’s what you’re looking for. But now there are several alternative, mature tools that are Linux native, like Krita, Inkscape, Darktable, etc… The Affinity suite is usable on Linux via Bottles, as are some versions of Adobe suite, like Photoshop.
I just have migrated to using an untrusted Windows Gaming PC exclusively for that and Debian for everything else. Go ahead, harvest my wasted hours on steam and chat trashtalk, idgaf.
It’s unfortunate that MMOs and competitive games generally have poor linux support. Mostly because of anticheats. It’s the only reason I still have windows on my gaming PC.
The MMO I play mostly works on Linux via Proton just fine. (And when it does have the occasional flaw, it’s something accidental, like breaking the exit function so you have to kill the process instead.)
Bingo, Linux is catching up but at the moment it’s still lesser in as far as ease and availability to game.
it reminds me of twitter users were reduced to 100 tweets for a while so they’d follow a 30 step workaround to see that 101st tweet but would still say masto is “too complicated”.
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Lol, the thread below this one starts with “So? Sure you can’t get rid of it but also you don’t have to use it.”
This is like if you’re renting an apartment and your landlord shows up to clear a clogged drain and whilst they’re in there they install a laundry chute to a room you don’t have access to.
You don’t pay for that room because you have no need for it and probably wouldn’t use it, but could if you want to. Or you can just deal with it being there. Or you can put something in front of the chute to hide it. But it’s an inconvenience having to do that and it wasn’t there when you moved in so you weren’t planning on having to deal with it.
Also, you’ve got no way of knowing if your landlord is in that room with their ear up to the bottom of the chute, listening to your conversations.
Yea, Windows users act like it’s some kind of immovable object that you just have to deal with and that they’re so smart because they spend hours applying some dodgy hack by wading through that god awful registry editor rather than just editing config files and having full control over their system. Oh no but then they’d have to open the terminal which is such a problem for them.
Holy shit. Just not “no” when it asks if you want to set up backup, and keep using what you already use.
It’s less difficult than falling over.
MacOS has had time machine for over a decade.
How is this different except for the fact it’s not our Lord and Savior Linux?
I don’t remember Time Machine backing up to someone else’s server.
iCloud does, and if memory serves you can’t remove that either. But like iCloud, you can simply not sign in.
You can always finely control what goes into iCloud and what does not.
Time Machine backups have to be opted-in if you want to save it to iCloud.
You have to enable iCloud to upload to it. I’ve been uploading to local encrypted disks for years
So the same thing here.
Use local accounts only and do not login to a Microsoft account.
Edit: In my situation, I used an MS account during a reinstall and disabled backups and logged out quickly after. There are methods to still do an offline install, from what I understand.
Disabling backup is annoying, but not hard.
Is that possible on Windows 11?
Yes. When installing and it asks for your email address just use no@thankyou.com then type anything in for the password. It will fail then you can enter a local account.
BRB, buying thankyou.com and enjoying my several million computers.
How many emails do you think contoso.com gets daily? I’ve used na@contoso.com hundreds of times for random shit that will get used for 5 minutes and never again
Yes. I had to do that on my latest reinstall. I had to create a local account after the install and log out of my MS account. It really tried to force backups, which is super annoying.
Is it still possible to install Winndows 11 without network connection? It was the optimal solution for local account Windows back in the day.
Yes it is, at least for now. Shift + f10 to open cmd in the OOBE, then “OOBE \BYPASSNRO”
I quickly tried, but I gave up as I just needed the install done. It didn’t occur to me to pull the network cable as that may have worked. If I remember what I was reading at the time correctly, it will take a bit for the option to show to do an offline install if you don’t have a network connection. (I could be completely wrong on that! It’s been a couple of months already.)
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You can get the Windows 11 ISO and mount/image a drive with it using Rufus which will let you disable telemetry and build a local account into the image IIRC
Hell you can even make a “mobile” windows install and have windows on an external drive with Rufus
You could also use Linux. I mean you’re starting to hack your machine just as much as a Linux user.
You also can’t use a work or school account, according to Microsoft:
Important: You must use a personal Microsoft account with Windows Backup. Work or school Microsoft accounts won’t work.
There is also no way to use the backup app with local storage, like an external hard drive; you can ONLY back up to OneDrive with this.
EDITED to clarify: for now, you can still back up to another drive, but it’s a different process and the “advanced settings” needed to do so are buried several layers deep.
I’ve been on Windows since 3.0 (not 3.1) and MS-DOS, back when DR-DOS was a thing and IBM’s OS/2 was a rising star, and the joke about how if operating systems were airlines, Linux would be the one where all the passengers bring parts and tools and build it on the runway themselves.
Oh, how the turns have tabled. Today, I installed Debian 12 with GNOME DE on an old 2010 MacBook, and then installed Budgie Desktop on top of that as an optional profile. It fucking screams on 13 year old hardware, lol. I’m not even done trying out all the distros and DEs I want to try out; that’s just one. When I’m done playing with that I’ll blow it away and install a different distro instead. And I didn’t pay a penny for any of them.
There is literally no reason for me to stay on the sick, bloated advertising delivery/data collection system that is Microsoft Windows.
I’ve grown up with windows (started with windows 95 in elementary school) and have been a Linux user since 2009. Watching windows decline and the Linux desktop grow and mature has been quite the ride. I’ve been distro-hopping for years and have finally settled on Debian Testing. It does exactly what I tell it to do. It helps me accomplish whatever task I’m doing and then gets out of the way.
Windows on the other hand is the polar opposite of that. Constantly nagging you to use OneDrive. New panels and “experiences” popping up out of nowhere. Unskippable OOBEs after a major update that force you to navigate some dark pattern if you have the audacity to resist using a Microsoft account. The telemetry that you know is running under the hood 24/7. Hands and knees begging you to use Edge to open PDFs?!?! Using windows today is like using Clippy - the operating system.
Linux has come such a long way, and outside of some proprietary edge cases, I can no longer imagine using Windows as a daily driver
Yep.
Windows 10 was the window into what was to come and how microsoft wanted to ruin windows in the future, Which was further
ruined“refined” in 11.I’m on linux to stay now, now that I’ve ironed out most of my problems, the only issues I have anymore are manufactured and artificial issues, like Amazon refusing to stream in anything higher than 360p because my system isnt “secure”, or like AMDs stupid convoluted AMDRewards system not working.
Yes. When I first booted up Linux Mint – the first distro I had tried since Red Hat came on a dozen or so 3.5" floppies – I couldn’t believe it. I was expecting something a LOT less developed and shiny, but no – and Mint is one of the lighter ones. That’s why I’m trying so many, including ones I already know I won’t use as a daily driver, because they’re all fully fledged, completely operable computing environments.
If it hadn’t been for MS Office I’d have done this long before now, especially when I got into a mandatory-Windows-Upgrade-and-break loop a couple years ago. But I absolutely despise the newer Office versions; they seem to break more with each release. If I have to go back to older versions to run it on Linux, that’s just one more favor the FOSS community will be doing for me.
Clippy - the operating system.
Jfc, lol. At least Clippy wasn’t all up in my shorts and sending the data back to the mothership. Gotta ask, though, given your age: did you ever get to use Microsoft Bob? You probably don’t remember all the commercials; it was Faith Ford hawking MS Bob every time you turned on the tv. But using it, omfg. You boot up into a “living room.” I shit you not. MSBob was a . . . really fucking weird five minutes, lol.
As a non windows user, can someone explain to be what all the fuss is about? It sounds like people are grumpy that they’re being shown a feature that they can’t use or don’t want to use, and MS is going to let people hide the UI for that.
What is wrong with this solution? Are people not going to be happy until every spec of the feature’s code is stripped from the OS?
It’s another way of trying to force users into using OneDrive, Microsoft’s cloud service, and paying for the privilege. It’s not a big deal for the tech savvy, but it’s a great way to capture subscriptions from those that are not. Using it also requires a Microsoft account.
The thing is, if you can’t uninstall it, then Windows will repeatedly try to shove the feature into your face, until you enable it again
I got a pop-up that said:
“Hey we have backup to OneDrive now! Do you want to turn it on?”. [Yes/no/don’t ask again]My options were remind me in 1 week, or remind me in 30 days
Can confirm, I get that on my school computers everytime I boot. Even if I click 30 days. There are no never option
Yes, it’s worth noting that some companies will do A/B tests, where one user is offered one choice, and another gets a different one. It’s possible for the two of you to have had a different experience.
I haven’t had any pop-up about this.
What’s wrong with having a built-in backup feature?
There’s nothing inherently wrong with having a backup software, but Microsoft has a terrible track record with every other “system component” that can push data to MS Cloud about making the software nag-ware to make you cave and buy more Microsoft products just to make the warnings go away, sometimes for an inferior product. See note at OneDrive, Cortana, Edge, and Bing just off the top of my head without doing any research.
So for me, I have several computers all protected by Synology backup. It goes to an appliance I own and control, not the cloud. This setup can be used to completely restore the entirety of a computer with the exception of firmware even if the main operating system is so fried automatic startup repair doesn’t work.
But, in the past, despite having a 24 hour recovery point with this system (every night it backs up any data that changed since the previous backup, including core OS files), Windows backup would be default still nag me about setting it up. It wouldn’t bother to even try to detect a third party backup tool in the same way that Defender does for third party security software. I had to run some specific setup options to make Windows backup go away (and I can’t remember since it was some years ago, but it may have involved removing the component). By comparison on my older Mac, when I turned off Time Machine to use Synology backup, I think I got one warning about shutting it down then it didn’t say anything else.
I don’t keep important data on my PC and a back costs space for no needed reason and why add bloat if you don’t need it have it as an option great but forced why (edit also who knows what they are doing with the backup it’ll probably be rolled into OneDrive then guess what Microsoft has even easier access to your data)
Windows could do that whether or not it’s installed.
But they said they’re going to allow the user to hide it.
Are people grumpy about burning hard disk space for a feature they don’t use? Every operating system is littered with convenience features that not everyone enables. Why does this feature strike a nerve?
These days Win10 & Win11 only let you temporarily hide things you don’t want. The next major update resets the settings, especially if it’s for a feature that could potentially earn MS money, like ads in the start menu, cortana in the tray, microsoft account nags and onedrive nags.
I think you’ll find a number of… specific OS users, let’s call them, who will tout that they can uninstall anything from their OS without complaint or warning. Same response as being unable to completely uninstall internet explorer back in the day.
How dare you, its GNU/Specific OS, or how I call it GNU + Specific OS.
It feels like lemmy is getting preachier by the minute. Its gotten obnoxious. Not 110% of the softwate you use is foss and you drink milk? What kind of monster are you.
It sounds like people are grumpy that they’re being shown a feature that they can’t use or don’t want to use,
That’s the problem right there. They’re trying to sell you a new feature. That’s an ad. Ads have no place in an operating system.
When does something become an OS feature and when is it an add-on? Consider the use case. If you need to make a backup or restore data from one, by having this as part of the OS it is always available. It’s line having vi installed; it comes with every Linux distro, but a lot of folks use Emacs. It makes sense that this should be a system component.
Windows bad. Linux good. Now go find a study with content that fits this narrative.
Typical Microsoft garbage ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
How dare they include a backup application! Monsters.
It’s not about including, it’s about forcing, my laptop still has an HDD and when that garbage dropped I kept my laptop idle (couldn’t use it since HDD usage was rocking 100%) for like 6 freaking hours, my HDD isn’t that empty either so I don’t know what the heck my PC was doing
Definitely Microsoft at fault here and not anything else
And they say Apple fanboys are the most annoying
If you’re a fanboy of any OS you’ve lost the plot
And they say Apple fanboys are the most annoying
Honestly, they often still are more annoying, IMO. After all, it’s not often that you see a Windows user being snobby about their OS, generally it’s just used by default because of work or it came with their PC and they haven’t bothered changing, or gaming.
Thankfully gaming on Linux is almost better than on Windows these days, it’s exciting to see!
They are monsters for not allowing us to disable it, like you can do with other Windows features (like WSL or Windows Sandbox).
How does Microsoft boot taste?
A lot like your mom’s pussy, weirdly enough, but with less hair and dogshit
Who cares? Windows has included a backup app of some sort since NT. The only way this is more than click bait would be if they were forcing you to use it.
It’s nothing like the old backup apps. They were useful this is more forced cloud spyware which at this point is the entire OS now
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Does it automatically back things up, even if you don’t have a Microsoft account or turn it on?
It’s optional as most things in Windows. Also if you do not use MS account where would backup be stored, how would you restore it? :)
Here are more reputable sources:
Have not used it myself, but I think most if not all of this was already available through Settings so it’s nothing new. LazyAdmin article seems to state the same.
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“Reputable.”
You mean sponsored.
No, meant reputable, because 1st one is MS article and those 2 others are blogs that I have read in the past and have not had much issues with their content (also I skimmed through them)
Wow that’s where you draw the line? Exfiltration! Fuck me.
I draw the line at anticompetitive design and leverage system as an excuse with all this spyware is just more indicators from Microsoft that they can’t compete in an open market.
Linux is a real alternative now to Windows with proton kick some serious ass for gamers. There isn’t a whole lot missing now from the good distros now. It’s time to start showing enterprises just how good Linux is and how that bottom line improves vastly along with privacy without the risk of OS spyware AND rent charging.
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Cool story.
To quote Nutella himself “Defaults are the only thing that matter”.
forced cloud spyware which at this point is the entire OS now
Apart from the entire OS is spyware
I have not used it nor have I seen prompts for it yet. But if it follows their usual pattern it’ll be very in-your-face about it and give every indication there is no choice but to use it which will be the same as required or forced for most users. It’s evil/deceitful practice in my opinion. I’m irritated every time Microsoft teams updates I have to disable and block it with Simple Wall firewall app.
It’s definitely not in your face. I’ve been using Windows 11 in some fashion ever since it was released, and I didn’t even know there was a backup app. I just ran it now to look at it, and it’s pretty tame. It syncs app installs from the Windows Store (which you don’t even need to use ever) and some settings like accessibility. I’ve long since removed OneDrive, which is what it looks as if the backup app uses to sync folders, so it’s disabled for me.
I’m not sure the backup app even does anything on it’s own, really. It seems like it’s just displaying some settings from other apps in a central location. 🤷♂️ This seems like a non story to me.
OneDrive integration in Windows reality pisses me off. I shouldn’t have to do so much modification to windows to get it to stop starting up. But then again I have some crazy bad luck when it comes to computers. I’ve worked in computers for almost 3 decades and no one reports having issues like I do. My colleagues admit that I may be cursed. Either way I think windows is pushing things a bit too much. No one should have to modify the registry or have to go through command line/powershell just to stop being nagged. The last few times I have gone into the task manager and disabled them on start up they get turned on again after Microsoft pushes an update hence why I’m using the simple wall firewall app. What is a non story for you just might not be for others. And that could be a simple thing like you being in a different update channel. I’m not sure but I think updates can also be affected by your location/geography data. Either way I don’t doubt I’m going to be shamed and told I’m a fool so…
So? Sure you can’t get rid of it but also you don’t have to use it.
Despite what this article is trying to imply you’re not actually forced to do any backups, so Microsoft are not seeing your information. Also it’s probably be encrypted anyway, but who knows.
You don’t have to use it, so this entire article is basically a big while load of nothing.
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Lemme guess. You’re against auto-updating, too?
Yeah? Obviously? If they roll out a update that fucks up your computer you’re out of luck. Sure you should always have recent backups but it might be more time effective to wait till all the bugs are fixed.
Not even to mention that I should have the final say in what happens with a device that I brought and own.
Sick of auto updates fucking up your solution but too lazy to do your own backups? Boy howdy to I have the solution for you!
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People do have control over their devices You have the control to not use the application.
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Why should I waste hard drive space that I paid for to store a component that I neither require nor utilize? If I’m already on a machine that is pretty close to my drive limitations (and I am), why should I simply accept further reduction in my computer’s capabilities?
This was the same argument Microsoft made about Internet Explorer during the antitrust lawsuit. Yet somehow, when faced with the possibility of a forced split, they managed to find a way.
Realistically, you’re probably not utilizing a good 90% of your operating system’s features on Windows. Is this backup crap good? No, but it’s also a drop in a bucket.
Sure, but stuff like defrag, etc. are there for good reasons, and I’ll be glad to have them if I ever do need them. Onedrive and Backup are literally only there to make Microsoft money, and having them on my system will never be of benefit to me.
By using Windows, you probably already opted in to these things from accepting their EULA. It’s a shitty practice, but it’s well within their purview.
It’s also well within the users purview to complain about it… Also for people to figure out how to rip it out of a system as well.
What’s in the EULA? That the software is installed, what are you complaining about exactly?
If you don’t use the software it’s irrelevant.
I’m not complaining about anything. I agree with you that it’s irrelevant, just turn it off
I’m not trying to claim they aren’t allowed to do it. The fact that it’s legal doesn’t make it right.
It might be a preview of whats coming though, MS would conceivably at some point move to a cloud based OS completely at some point
thats their plan they’ve stated elsewhere.
Pretty sure the next thing we’ll see after 11 is cloud desktop, judging by the scuttlebutt
You should read EULA every once in a while.
“We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to”, for example, “protect their customers” or “enforce the terms governing the use of the services”.
With Windows10 you already accepted that they will collect and share data. What is good faith to them remains to be seen but as a rule of hand I don’t trust them for anything. In short, yes… Microsoft is seeing your information.
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Spoken like a true Stockholm syndrome Windows user.
I’m sorry I don’t care about what you care about as much as you do.
You got to love all the ads that are now a part of windows
