U.S. President Joe Biden arrived in Israel on Wednesday pledging solidarity in its war against Hamas and backing its account that a blast that killed huge numbers of Palestinians at a Gaza hospital had been caused by militants.
The fireball that engulfed the Al-Ahli al-Arabi hospital delivered some of the most harrowing images yet from a 12-day war, and wrecked White House plans for Biden’s emergency diplomatic mission to the Middle East, with Arab leaders calling off their planned summit with the U.S. president.
Palestinian officials blamed an Israeli air strike for the blast, which it said had killed as many as 500 people. Israel said the blast was caused by a failed rocket launch by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad militant group, which denied blame.
Speaking alongside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Biden said: “I was deeply saddened and outraged by the explosion of the hospital in Gaza yesterday, and based on what I’ve seen, it appears as though it was done by the other team, not you.”
“it appears as though”
I suspect that if the evidence was strong, Biden wouldn’t have used such a weak endorsement.
Yeah this is a really poor headline. He followed up by saying, in front of Netanyahu, that we were going to continue to investigate.
This is “police officer on the scene shares their preliminary understanding at the time” vs “journalists do in depth dive of what happened”.
it appears as though it was done by the other team, not you.
saying this at all is fucking insane! even the implication that you needed to say this is why maybe you shouldn’t say it!
The claim it was Palestinian militants really lacks credibility.
They simply do not have ordinance with the magnitude to kill hundreds and destroy a hospital. If they did, they would be firing them at Israel every day.
On top of that, Netanyahu’s spokesman claimed responsibility for the attack.
I’d be interested in evidence that supports either claim.
A photo outside the hospital shows some scorched concrete and burnt cars, but no crater or anything you’d really expect from a military bomb. The IDF also supplied intercepted audio of Hamas fighters discussing a botched missile launch:
“I am telling you this is the first time we see a missile like this falling, and so that’s why we are saying (the rocket) belongs to Palestinian Islamic Jihad…,” says one of the alleged Hamas members.
“It’s from us?'” asks the second.
“It looks like it…,” replies the first. “They are saying that the shrapnel from the missile is local shrapnel and not like Israeli shrapnel.”
“It couldn’t have found another place to explode?” asks the second.
“They shot it from the cemetery behind the hospital,” says the first, “and it misfired and fell on them.”
There is also evidence that there was a barrage of rockets fired at around the same time.
Naturally this is from the IDF, who aren’t unbiased. Speaking only for myself though, I really can’t possibly imagine what Israel would stand to gain from doing this.
I really can’t possibly imagine what Israel would stand to gain from doing this.
More dead Palestinians.
You can’t really pretend that’s not one of their goals when they’re always killing as many as possible.
If that was their goal, they could depopulate the Gaza Strip in an hour. It’s clearly not the objective, even if they’re not prioritizing minimizing casualties as much as they should.
Truly, ask yourself what Israel would do if its true aim was “killing as many as possible”. I’m genuine asking you, what do you think they would do if that was the intent, and are they doing those things?
Most genocide expert agrees the modern genocides look nothing like the past ones, and particularly say there will not likely be another genocide like the Holocaust because we literally had a world war and a convention in Geneva about it. If you marker for purposeful ethnic cleansing is that it has to look like the holocaust, you’re going to miss several genocides. If you can’t imagine why Israel would attempt to hide a motive like ‘we want to kill Palestinians because they are Palestinians’ though both words and actions then I don’t know what else to say.
They would kill as many as they could within the limitations of having to appear they aren’t the aggressor. They are fully dependent on their international reputation.
within the limitations of having to appear they aren’t the aggressor
You cannot claim this is something they care about while also claiming that they bombed a hospital for the sole purpose of killing civilians.
But we can’t prove they did, can we? There’s just enough deniability to squeeze through politically. And that’s all they need. Apparently.
Yes Israel fired a rocket from northern Gaza and caused it to prematurely explode over the hospital to kill Palestinians but also keep plausible deniability
Give me a fucking break lmao
If that was their goal, they could depopulate the Gaza Strip in an hour.
And if there were no repercussions, they absolutely would.
But much to their obvious resentment, they need to play the international politics game. If they don’t, they’ll find their economy decimated in much the same way a Russia has. And when the arms deals dry up, they could easily end up on the receiving end, given their unpopularity with their neighbours.
Truly, ask yourself what Israel would do if its true aim was “killing as many as possible”. I’m genuine asking you, what do you think they would do if that was the intent, and are they doing those things?
I would keep taking inch after inch, waiting for any excuse to retaliate, and then retaliate as violently and indiscrimately as possible.
So as a purely hypothetical example, maybe I’d constantly encroach on their borders and bulldoze their homes.
Maybe I’d imprison and execute children for throwing rocks.
Maybe when a terrorist cell crossed the border and killed (a fraction as many) civilians, I’d drop an absurd number of bombs on their city, beyond what could possibly be targeting actual combatants, killing scores of civilians and levelling buildings.
Purely hypothetically of course.
Haha, really good source, read their blogs and you can see why and how they’re trying to shift the narrative.
As a European, I don’t believe anything the US says anymore. Not after decades of deception and disinformation from them.
Publisher of a claim has no relevance to whether the claim is true or not. A source being biased does not mean that everything they say is false.
Here’s the BBC, if you like them better.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061
Based on available evidence, it appears the explosion happened in a courtyard which is part of the hospital site. Images of the ground after the blast do not show significant damage to surrounding hospital buildings. What the images do show includes scorch marks and burnt-out cars.
BBC Verify has shown the evidence to a number of weapons experts, some of whom say it is not consistent with what you would expect from a typical Israeli airstrike.
J Andres Gannon, an assistant professor at Vanderbilt University, in the US, says the explosion appears to be small, meaning that the heat generated from the impact may have been caused by leftover rocket fuel rather than an explosion from a warhead.
Justin Bronk, a senior research fellow at the Royal United Services Institute (Rusi) in the UK, agrees. While it is difficult to be sure at such an early stage, he says, the evidence looks like the explosion was caused by a failed rocket section hitting the car park and causing a fuel and propellant fire.
And the cause of the tragedy is this:
Canon Richard Sewell, the dean of St George’s College in Jerusalem, told the BBC that about 1,000 displaced people were sheltering in the courtyard when it was hit, and about 600 patients and staff were inside the building.
I agree that we don’t know for sure yet. but I don’t think it can be denied that a plausible story is that a failed rocket crashed into this courtyard that had hundreds of people gathered in it, igniting the rest of the fuel and causing a large explosion.
Or maybe the IDF really did decide to just bomb a hospital courtyard. That’s plausible, though seems unlikely to me, personally.
I truly believe Israel did the hit, and the narrative is being shifted around now because they knew they went too far and international backlash might not be in their favour. We’ll find out eventually.
It’s not about plausibility anymore, they want to turn Gaza into a parking lot, these people are talking about mowing the grass every few years so that explains why the majority of Palestinians is underage.
But you’re right, I might be biased. Both sides have extremist that are willing to do anything for their cause, but one side has been pushed to the brink with no way out. I’m really not surprised this breeds terrorists/freedom fighters who’d rather die than live like a dog.
I can only think about the civilians on both sides that died. Children are dying and the next generation of terrorists/freedom fighters/orthodox extremists are being made right as we speak. This cycle of violence has no end.
And nobody even mentions the hostages anymore. It’s kids paying the price while old white men talk and talk.
I’m really emotional so not a good place to speak from, and will be reading and following less news the coming weeks, just for my mental health. I don’t want to live in this world anymore.
The barrage of rockets were launched around half an hour after the hospital blast according to the video footage.
Israel would have claimed it a military target and use that excuse. They have no reason to deny the bombing.
They have admitted to other bombings in the past such as ambulances because they were valid military targets.
I see no reason for Israel to lie about this as they have public support right now.
In 2014 they bombed a hospital and blamed Hamas. They didn’t say it was a legitimate military target, they said Hamas did it. So historically your claim is untrue.
You have a cite? This is all I could find and Israel said they did it.
https://www.newsweek.com/mysterious-case-gazas-al-shifa-hospital-262086
Same conflict but different hospital.
Thank. I’ll read through those.
No they don’t but they did downvote you for sharing something they didn’t like lol
https://www.newsweek.com/mysterious-case-gazas-al-shifa-hospital-262086 OK Buddy. They even used the same exact excuse, saying it was “gaza terrorists” instead of naming Hamas directly. But continue to talk shit with no sources of your own.
Normally Israel just says they were taking fire or munitions were being there, etc.
It’s why they normally just say, yep we did it. It’s not a violation of the rules of war to bomb military targets even if it’s a hospital.
It looks bad but it isn’t a violation.
Right now the world is on the side of Israel. So they’re more like to say look at Hamas. They’re using the hospital to attack us and the world would say we get it.
Why I suspect a failed Hamas attack.
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What a shallow life you lead.
People a fucking dying here dude, we want proof so we know if theres a cut and dry reason to force israel to back off on the bombings due to civilian death.
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People a fucking dying here dude, we want proof so we know if theres a cut and dry reason to force israel to back off on the bombings due to civilian death.
Not to say proof is unnecessary, but that’s been the case for a while now.
Hardline proof of a war crime would make a large number of countries turn on israel pretty quick. Especially given how many are already speaking up about their actions.
Thats why theyre so insistant that theyre not at fault. Because if they are, theyre going to lose a lot of free money and support globally.
Hardline proof of a war crime would make a large number of countries turn on israel pretty quick. Especially given how many are already speaking up about their actions.
They’ve targeted fleeing civilians along routes they designated as safe. And bombed locations they told Palestinians to evacuate to. And used white phosphorus. I believe these all qualify as war crimes.
Theyre all debatably excusable, and thus wont be considered a war crime until an international court argues it out after the fact. Israel has “excuses” for those events.
There isnt an excuse for this. Which is why theyre blaming someone else.
It’s the scope of this. This is effectively the equivalent of the Hamas attack, if Israel is responsible. Killing 600 people in an airstrike on a hospital during a war is “equivalent” to a terrorist attack killing and kidnapping a hundred people.
And by saying that you have already made it clear that you just view the dead as a tool. In your moral high ground, you make it clear that their death only had meaning if it means you can blame the IDF for it. Which was the “shallow” argument being made.
Believe it or not: you don’t have to have a take or choose a side on every single thing that happens in the world. And you can also wait a day or two until more information is known.
Or you can just shit on the memory of dead civilians unless they support your narrative. Works pretty well for the IDF and Hamas.
Youre an idiot, bud.
Proof of an israeli war crime would cause a global loss of support for israel. It would very likely stop israels nonstop bombing of gaza.
Knowing if israel is at fault or not is the difference between another round of deaths via horrid explosion.
If Israel did it, I think we’ll see several Western powers condemn it and stop their support. It’s uncertain what the US would do since we currently have a non functional legislative branch.
If it’s a failed Hamas attack, I think we may see Arab countries get involved to take them out, which should hopefully translate to more safety for the Palestinians. Alternatively, criticism of Israel sharply decreases, and they use that to strike even more with impunity:/.
It really isn’t. The IDF have been committing crimes against humanity for decades. Just like Hamas has been committing acts of terror. And the fact that EVERYONE stops caring once evidence suggests the IDF didn’t drop the bomb sums it up.
IDF did the bombing? Everyone condemns them. And we continue to stay “hands off” during this genocide Hamas did the bombing? They only commit acts of terror because Israel forced them to Third party did? They only commit acts of terror because Israel forced them to
Because, again, you make it abundantly clear that you don’t give a shit about anyone who died. You only care that you can use this to support your political views. And that is disgusting.
If israel didnt do it, and it was an accidental jihad explosion, its another “maybe war crime, maybe excusable accident” situation, and no one will step in to stop the bombings.
My angle is literally, explicitly, to stop anyone else from dying.
Ah yes, sympathizing with innocent victims who were almost certainly bombed by Israel is just to bolster talking points. Not to call out obvious war crimes. If it weren’t Israel, they wouldn’t have deleted their “evidence” in the form of video analysis they posted briefly until they were called out for it being obvious bullshit.
A hospital was bombed and people died. It’s a tragedy and everyone is focused on how they can own their political “opponents” and win online arguments.
I am not going to disagree with you, I feel like that deserves a some semblance of gravity of the situation. This isn’t a zero sum game, but we have already committed to those rules.
But at the end of the day, debating is all we can do. As I doubt most of us here have the power to stop what is happening. We have to wait until both sides have had enough. Only they can decide when that is.
Overall, my only complaint is that the only evidence that could be shown on this situation, was a 240p 15 second video from 20 km away, of a missile intercept by a patriot system.
We give 5 billion taxpayer funded dollars a year for intel on the region and this is the best they can do to clear up the situation?
Have you considered that many people here pay taxes to governments that send billions to Isreal so if it was Isreal not only do our countires share some of the blame but that also means we should vote for peole who would reign in Isreali agression and spending. Thats probably also why you see more critisizing of Isreal, because that’s something we can actually change. My government doesn’t fund or really engage with Hamas or PIJ so there’s not much more we can do but condem the taking of innocent life, which just about everyone already did.
Why are you being downvoted? This is true.
I’m excited for people to realize that Hamas does not, in fact, give a shit at all about Palestinians and are not a “resistance” movement of “freedom fighters.”
So yeah, blowing up a hospital because they kept fucking bombs near or in it would do wonders for that.
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The question implied wasn’t “do you feel sympathy for victims of this” but rather “why are you so concerned about who did it”
I also didn’t tell you my favorite color, while we’re on the subject of unrelated topics.
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They’re unrelated to the topic you were discussing, which is why people are so passionate about the truth here.
The implied reason they care is that killing a bunch of civilians at a hospital is such an obviously horrific big deal that the party responsible will rightfully be held accountable.
The problem with your take is that the only reason people are fired up about this at all is because it is a big deal, and they’re assuming everyone is on the same page and you’re still reading the cover of the book
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Just like claim about the 40 babies that later was disputed/ not true?
Where are all the evidence?
This is just claiming things without an actual evidence. Kind of propoganda.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061
This BBC article is a good review of the current evidence.
Thanks! I will read it.
Actually a lot of the OSINT community has come out and vetted much this version (example) but go ahead and tell us how you not being aware of any evidence means it doesn’t exist
Here’s more further confirming it was not an air strike:
Direct footage: https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1714383923881373908?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
I actually wasn’t aware and thanks, I will check the links.
However you have such an aggressive approach, that I doubt it will be of any use to discuss nor argue with you any further.
Therefore, I welcome you to my blocklist.
😂
“THE OTHER TEAM”
“MILITANTS”
I legit was not sure which side he was talking about when he used that term.
Yeah and? Both sides are absolutely fucked, both with a LOT of unarmed civvy blood on their hands.
Team A and team B are both guilty as fuck to many atrocities, both militant groups, etc
News flash: Hamas IS NOT Palestine
The other 11999 bombs though? Yeah totally us! Seems asinine to debate this one specific killing of civilians.
What are we up to now? At least 3000 dead and 10,000 wounded in 10 days, not counting those lost in the rubble of the buildings they’ve flattened.
Honestly, in this post-truth world … I don’t believe a freaking word of it …
Fix your title. That’s not what he said.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
GAZA/TEL AVIV, Oct 18 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden arrived in Israel on Wednesday pledging solidarity in its war against Hamas and backing its account that a blast that killed huge numbers of Palestinians at a Gaza hospital had been caused by militants.
Speaking alongside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Biden said: “I was deeply saddened and outraged by the explosion of the hospital in Gaza yesterday, and based on what I’ve seen, it appears as though it was done by the other team, not you.”
Biden’s trip to the Middle East was supposed to calm the region, even as he demonstrated U.S. support for its ally Israel, which has vowed to annihilate the Hamas movement whose fighters killed 1,400 Israelis in a rampage on Oct. 7.
The scenes of destruction from the hospital were horrific even by the standards of the past 12 days, which have confronted the world with relentless images, first of Israelis slaughtered in their homes and then of Palestinian families buried under rubble from Israel’s retaliatory strikes.
The U.S. State Department issued a new warning to Americans not to travel to Lebanon, where border clashes between the Iran-backed Hezbollah movement and Israel over the past week have been the deadliest since the last all-out war in 2006.
But he is under intense pressure to win a clear Israeli commitment to alleviate the plight of civilians in the Gaza Strip, where 2.3 million Palestinians are under total siege, with no access to food, fuel, water or medical supplies.
The original article contains 884 words, the summary contains 253 words. Saved 71%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Jesus Christ Joe. You fucked over Anita and now you’re on to fucking over a country because you can’t find your spine with both hands a doctor providing instruction.
I’m afraid that the US is gonna have another 9/11 if we don’t stop supporting Israel.
Because the indiscriminate bombings that kill civilians makes people want to join terrorist organizations because they have no other recourse for their families being murdered?
That’s just a solid terrorist W against you then.
Yes it was caused by militants
Was it our militants or the other team’s militants?
It literally does not matter
It most certainly does matter. We’re aiding and supporting one side. They should not be using that aid to continue to murder civilians.
The two sides are murderers, and civilians. If you’re divvying them up by what flag they’re waving then you’ve chosen the side of the murderers.
My personal opinion has no impact. My government has chose a side, and you’re correct, they’ve chosen the side of murderers. That’s a problem.
Mine too 🙁. And I think your opinion does have an impact, if only on yourself. I read about this shit, and some part of me really wants to rage and justify one horror over another. And I hate that.
Calling the other side of this conflict simply civvies is reductive as fuck. Fuck Israel and the IDF but Hamas are not simply citizens taking abuse from their occupiers. That ended when their targets ceased to be solely military, even now many Hamas supporters are calling for the extermination of all Israelis.
Free Palestine, but the situation is absolutely not murderers vs civilians, shame on you for trying to muddy the waters by saying such a thing.
Israel and the IDF
Murderers.
Hamas
Murderers.
Hamas supporters are calling for the extermination of all Israelis
Murderers.
Please pay attention
People spending too much time on the specific of who to blame for a hospital strike instead of the hundreds of kids that already died or injured due to to attacks on heavily populated closed areas.
So this here is the current view on the area where supposedly about 500 people died. Also there are allegedly more than 300 wounded.
Questions I personally have:
- where is the rubble and where is the bomb crater?
- why does the building seem undamaged?
- how do you fit 800 people in this parking lot?
You trying to start a new copypasta there pal?
