• Flying SquidM
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    997 months ago

    And, according to John Oliver, even the chocolate companies that try to only source their product from child labor-free sources, they say they can’t guarantee it. That’s how much and how often children are used on these farms.

    After seeing that John Oliver report, I’m never eating chocolate again. All I would be able to do would be to think of those kids.

    And yes, I realize that other products I have are made from child labor, but chocolate is a pretty easy one to give up.

    • @CosmicTurtle@lemmy.world
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      467 months ago

      If you think chocolate is bad, sugar is worse.

      What I’ve learned in the last few years is that every part of modern life has exploitation in it.

      There are very few parts that aren’t.

      • @MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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        397 months ago

        “There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.”

        It’s not an air-headed anarchist/socialist slogan. It’s just the truth at scale.

        • @pomodoro_longbreak@sh.itjust.works
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          87 months ago

          True enough, but there is still more and less ethical consumption. For example buying a refurbished smartphone instead of a brand new iPhone may still indirectly support unethical mining and working conditions, but it is the less evil option.

          I just don’t want people thinking they have zero power, so they may as well wallow in iniquity.

          • @danciestlobster@lemmy.world
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            27 months ago

            My thoughts exactly. The statement is certainly true but I have seen it used as an argument against protest by refusing to support morally bankrupt businesses.

          • @banneryear1868@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            It’s a really good thing to think about your consumer habits but I think it’s also important not to internalize the guilt on an individual basis and get in to this “how do I cleanse myself” mode of existing as a capitalist subject. The power we have is held in opposing capitalism not by accepting the moral conditions it poses to us, but instead rejecting that “original sin” it forces us in to and not taking it personally. Every internalized guilt inherent in being a capitalist subject is similar to being an abused spouse who blames themselves for their partner’s behavior, the partner here are capitalist institutions and private entities who constantly gaslight us they’re just doing whatever they can to be good.

        • FarraigePlaisteach
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          7 months ago

          Absolutely true. But under what system is there significantly less exploitation? Too many people are selfish, cruel or both.

          • @MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Naturally, a system that promotes wealth distribution and not one that promotes wealth capture.

            This is a situation where the only correct answer is to change direction. Do not set requirements for perfection when even mild improvement is so easily attained.

            EDIT: One specific step would be to make worker-owned corporations a requirement. The stock market can stick around for all I care, but the business capital should only ever be controlled by the actual workers. That doesn’t mean companies would have to restructure or fire executives. Delegation of duty is absolutely a thing.

            Normal people wouldn’t have to worry at all about such a change. Though maybe if their job was figuring out how to cut meat off the company for profit, they might have to worry…

            • Ataraxia
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              07 months ago

              So conquer the world and force it on it because otherwise how do you control what the Congo does to their children?

              • @lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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                67 months ago

                How about we start with punishing companies that knowingly integrate shave labor into their supply chains?

              • @MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                That can be done without colonialism, imperialism, or invasion. Much like how the EU is forcing American tech companies to be less shitty.

                You want part of this sweet pie? Wash your hands before you sit at the table.

        • @banneryear1868@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          That’s why “I’m not buying [specific product] again” is worse than ineffective, it’s validating to the illusion of a capitalist subject’s ability to morally absolve themselves of the system that sustains their economic status, or even the notion that it’s important to internalize this guilt and morally absolve yourself from it. This mechanism is internal to capitalism and works in the manner a religious ritual would to cleanse yourself of sin, the civil religion of capitalism addressing the original sin you inherit as a capitalist subject.

          • @MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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            37 months ago

            Very true. If you’re against the exploitation, it’s a damn good idea to be against the system that actively promotes the exploitation.

            • @banneryear1868@lemmy.world
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              37 months ago

              It’s also liberating because it means it not about you, and you aren’t obligated to accept this guilt and “original sin” and the absolving rituals as prescribed by the capitalist system. The capitalists want you to feel guilty if it means we aren’t directing our anger at them for forcing this economic arrangement on us. It’s like they are an abusive spouse gaslighting us in to thinking we’re the problem.

              • @MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                That’s a good point. Very akin to christian churches (and almost certainly others, I just have personal experience there) shaming women for things guys may be celebrated for doing.

                Hell, some of them literally blame all women for the original sin of eating from the fruit of knowledge… freaking psycho controlling thought patterns, all of 'em.

          • @MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Not really. It means there are no easy answers, and they almost certainly do not lay within capitalism. It should in no way imply that there are no better or worse sources. It is only a comment about how capitalism will most certainly give you a negative answer that includes exploitation.

      • @helenslunch@feddit.nl
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        87 months ago

        There’s a show about this:

        “The Good Place”

        Spoiler: everyone ends up in “the bad place” because making ethically sound decisions in an increasingly complex and global economy is nearly impossible.

      • @jol@discuss.tchncs.de
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        7 months ago

        There’s others sources of sugar that are much less problematic though, like beet and others. There’s not much alternative to cocoa.

        • @CosmicTurtle@lemmy.world
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          47 months ago

          Yeah except that the sugar lobby does a lot to artificially keep sugar prices down. The sugar lobby also fights tooth and nail to make sure that sugar sin taxes don’t get passed or if they do, they target all sweeteners.

          • @MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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            17 months ago

            I mean, artificial sweeteners aren’t so grand either, when factoring in gut biome and odd digestion issues as well. Though I really doubt (read: wouldn’t believe) that is why the sugar lobby tries to include them…

      • Flying SquidM
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        117 months ago

        Yeah, that was incredible too. I wonder how many other agricultural products are made by people who never had an opportunity to consume them? Are there coffee growers who have never had a cup of coffee?