cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/18749281
The Wisconsin English teacher, Jordan Cernek, argues in the suit that the district violated his freedom of religion and free speech in mandating the use of the students’ preferred names and pronouns.
A high school English teacher is suing a Wisconsin school district, alleging it did not renew his contract last year because he refused to use the preferred names of two transgender students.
Jordan Cernek’s federal lawsuit alleges the Argyle School District violated his constitutional and civil rights to be free of religious discrimination and to be able to express himself according to his religious beliefs when it did not renew his contract because he refused to abide by a requirement that teachers use the names or pronouns requested by students.
(Uplifting because a bigot got the consequences he deserved, not because the whiny piece of shit sued over it.)
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This does not seem uplifting.
Neither does your tone.
Asshole loses job because of said assholery is a reasonably uplifting news story I’d say.
Jo. And what faith even prohibits changing names? Bigotry? Or is that in some old book?
Remember, God doesn’t make mistakes. So if he made you in such a way that you want to change your name later in life you should just do it.
I completely don’t get what those people do. Where I come from, you either don’t believe in God, because you believe in facts. And you’re nice to people because it’s the right thing to do… Or you believe that God had a son (who is at the same time also him) and that son also told you to be nice to people… So I don’t get how people claim being an asshole is somehow mandated to them.
Because they aren’t actually believers, they want to have a shield for being shitty. And the church will even help defend them.
Clearly God made folks a specific way and that shouldn’t be altered, which is why I’m against glasses and braces. /s
Plastic surgery, too. Fox “News” presenters have boob jobs, nose jobs, veneers, fake tans, and dye jobs, and they have the nerve to say people shouldn’t alter their bodies.
It’s rough that it has come to this.
If someone thinks the kids deserve to be respected more than some bigot needs the ability to bully those kids it is pretty uplifting.
I guess you don’t think the kids deserve respect.
Hate speech isn’t protected. This is hate speech. And he’s doing it to cause emotional distress.
Get bent 🫶
^How’s this for tone?
What tone? It was two sentences.
The teacher believes he is being discriminated against because the state won’t allow him to discriminate against society’s most vulnerable members, who happen to be in his care.
You can’t make this stuff up.
I hope he gets hit by a car
That’s horrible!
I hope a car slowly parks on top of him
The Austin Powers steamroller would like a word
I hope every time he gets out of bed he steps on a Lego. And when he hops off it in pain, he hops onto another Lego. Every time he goes barefoot, he steps on a Lego. For the rest of his life.
I’m currently working at a school with a trans kid. She’s an absolute delight and if I hear anyone in the district dead name her, there will be hell to pay. I’m so glad schools are getting rid if jackasses like this guy.
What does the student have down on their paperwork? I’m just thinking that there could be some confusion if the old name was on everything instead of their preferred name.
Does someone at the school try to correct the records in some way in that situation?
Our system actually has a fill in for preferred names for both faculty and students and will use that on all documents if you check the box. I myself use it and my badge, logins, and even timeclock have my nickname instead of my legal name. I only know her real name because her dossier was upfront about being trans.
That’s cool. Thank you for actually providing an answer to my questions. Much appreciated
Official documentation doesn’t have any bearing on what you call someone in class. It’s literally no different than calling William by his preferred name of Will.
I’m asking how everyone would know what to call them and if there’s a way to make sure they do.
Don’t worry, someone else provided a real answer. Thanks.
Why are you just making things up? What’s the point of you taking the effort to say nonsense?
I mean, I’m sure this only came up because he was specifically asked by the student or the student’s friends to use their preferred name and he said, “Jesus would send me to hell if I did!”, which is terrifying.
Not terrifying in the idea that Jesus will send you to hell for using a trans person’s preferred name, because he won’t, but terrifying that somebody believes that and lives their life worshiping a horrible monster that would do that to a human being.
What are you talking about?
Back in the 90s, most of my teachers would ask the class on the first day if they had any (school appropriate) nicknames they prefer to be called.
Just make this a requirement.
My 6th grade teacher did exactly this, but went beyond normal nicknames and said if there’s ANYTHING you want to be called she would use that name instead. Granted, every teacher before that would hear the nicknames and just use them anyway, but this one went a step beyond that.
Not a single kid used their birth name. Some used regular nicknames, some used their parents nickname for them, and some chose something else. I went the cringier route and chose “silent hill because I like that game and I’m usually quiet” and sure enough she called me that all year. Had the nicknames down by the end of the week and still knew each child’s real name for when she’s talking to other adults.
I don’t see what the big deal is with using someone’s preferred name. Legitimately the only reason to not use it in this context is to be a piece of shit.
Silent Hill LMAO, I love it. I once asked a teacher to call me Mega Man and she told me to fuck off.
Throughout all of my years at school, ending in late 2010s they always at some point around first day asked something similar too, but it was mostly just another name you go by rather than nickname.
Totally agree they should do something like that as a requirement, though.
A kid in my class hated his first name Courtney, and went by his middle name, Roger (preferably Rodge), because there were several other girls in our grade named Courtney, and people had made fun of him for having a “girls name,” even though Courtney is technically not gender specific.
Please stop bringing this kind of crap into “uplifting news.”
This is objectively sad news. I’m not happy a kid isn’t getting supported by his teacher at school. While it’s probably good he was fired for it, it’s not what I’d call “uplifting” at all.
Ah, allow me to introduce you to the orphan crushing machine. It was born of a tweet:
“Every heartwarming human interest story in america is like “he raised $20,000 to keep 200 orphans from being crushed in the orphan-crushing machine” and then never asks why an orphan-crushing machine exists or why you’d need to pay to prevent it from being used.”
But it is uplifting seeing a bigot face consequences.
Lmao. Teachers don’t get free speech, they’re acting in loco parentis. Anything detrimental to a child in their care is grounds for dismissal. Just depends on the school.
Oh, you’d be surprised the states that would disagree with you.
Well…maybe “surprised” isn’t the word. I assume you follow the news. Maybe “deeply saddened with humanity and it’s inability to tolerate those different than them” is a better word…although I suppose that’s many words.
Oh well. Life is funny like that. Always surprising you. Or…rather deeply saddening with humanity and it’s inability to tolerate those different than them as it were.
I just had teacher trainings this week at the school district I am working for this year after moving from Texas to the PDX area. It was like night and day compared to Texas. The training began with Land Acknowledgements, and we spent a few hours learning about and discussing how we will be implementing cross-curricular activities on the culture, language, and practices of the Native American tribes from this area. I teared up, I gotta tell ya.
But the thing that really hit me the hardest was how comfortable I felt as a queer person. They asked us to put our pronouns on our name tent, and I initially put the ones I was assigned at birth (because I’m coming from Texas where I didn’t dare let on that I wasn’t cisgender). But I soon realized through discussions with the trainers and with people at mine and surrounding tables that this really is a safe place, that I can be myself and not fear repercussions that would affect my livelihood.
So I shared during discussions about privilege and power that I was non-binary, and nobody batted an eye, no microgestures indicating their discomfort, it was just…normal. Safe. I’ve never felt like this before. Every queer person…teacher, student, citizen, immigrant, or otherwise…should be allowed to feel like this.
EEEEEE, So glad you feel comfortable here! ^^ I love it when people mention that. Not to say we’re perfect, far from it, but safe, we do try to be. c: (Growing up here in the closet, especially during high school, was difficult but not impossible x.x Was able to get put on hormones the same day I was diagnosed with GD. So glad I had the resources to use once I was 18.)
Well that’s because if Florida didn’t exist, Texas would be the worst state. I don’t know what state you’re in now, but it sounds like it’s not Florida, Texas, Ohio, or Iowa…in that order.
I mean Florida just looks bad because all of their court stuff is public. Saying that Texas is the second worst state is just peremptorily disqualifying Alabama Mississippi Georgia Kentucky and like 7 other states from fair competition.
PDX = Portland, Oregon
PDX = Portland metropolitan area = Oregon.
Repeat after me: There’s a difference between free speech and being a bigot.
I can understand how difficult it would be to call your son or daughter by a different name. But if I am introduced to someone, and they tell me their name is Molly; I’m gonna call them Molly. You’d have to be a real piece of work to go out of your way to call them something else.
But then again, paperwork and role call, etc for the school – How was that printed out? Because I am fucked when it comes to names and remembering shit. If roll had “Greg” printed on it, but Greg wanted to be called “Molly”; I’d have a hard time flipping that in my head every day when I’m reading one thing and having to change it to another. It’s like that mental test where you read the word “Blue” but the word is in red and you’re supposed to say what color the word is.
So I’d like to know - did identification from the school match their preferred names? If not; why not? The school might be just as at-fault here.
After 30 or so roll calls and doing them every day I’m pretty sure you would remember that Greg goes by Molly. It’s not that hard to remember your students’ names.
Unless every kid in your class has a different name then maybe it might get difficult, but at that point the roll call paper would be pointless and they may as well just print it with the preferred names on it
They probably should just print it with the preferred names anyways.
It’s not that hard to remember your students’ names.
It is for me, as I’m on the spectrum.
I feel like remembering people’s names properly is a superpower teachers have. I sure as Hell don’t understand how they manage it, but in my experience they consistently manage it.
(Besides, I assume they could just annotate the attendance list with the preferred names/pronouns on the first day of school.)
Pretty sure that’s what they do. When I was school most teachers had trouble pronouncing some names, so they’d just ask us what we preferred to be called, or how we’d prefer our names to be pronounced and they’d make a note.
Most kids had nicknames that they preferred to use anyway, so that’s what how they’d be addressed. All official paperwork had the given name, but their friends, and teachers would just refer to them by the name they preferrred…which is why this whole name situation is just baffing to me. I’m guessing they didn’t renew his contract for other/additional reasons, this is just his way or trying to hit back
I’m guessing they didn’t renew his contract for other/additional reasons, this is just his way or trying to hit back
Imagine how ridiculously terrible he must be if this self-report is his idea of trying to make himself look less bad, LOL!
From this article it sounds like he’s one of those religious nuts trying to force their views on everyone. He probably starts off every conversation with “well, you know, as a Christian.”
It’s never about religion with a POS like this, it’s almost always about control. Hopefully the lawsuit gets tossed before it costs the school district too much money, and he can go work at a religious school where his views will probably not cause waves
They get a lot of practice since it is part of their job with all the nicknames that differ from class rosters and also see the same kids every weekday, grade their papers with their names on it, etc.
Most, and maybe all, School Information Systems (SIS) that are used have a field for nicknames/preferred names because of how common nicknames are.
Was a teacher. I used tricks like assigned seating with a name chart until I learned each name. It’s just repetition, and anyone could do it. Usually took me about a week to get them all. And if you forget a name during that week, you just ask. It’s not a big deal. I would always say something like, “Sorry, I know you. I’m getting it.”
I was always called by the “shortened, nickname” version of my actual first name, in Catholic school, starting in 1975. Plenty of other kids where, too: Richard, Rich; Robert, Bob; Jennifer, Jenny; Elizabeth, Beth. There is no problem referring to someone with their preferred name.
I will confirm that it requires real conscious effort to use someone’s preferred pronouns, when you have been referring to them with different pronouns all their lives, as well as having the deep inertia of the English language set like concrete in your brain – especially when they themselves are navigating the minefield of gender identity as a teenager right along with you. I do tend to rankle a bit at “constructed” pronouns (think “xe”), because I feel that insisting that everyone immediately use placeholder words that have not firmly made their way into the lexicon is asking a bit too much. I will happily use the singular they/them; that’s something which has been in common usage that way for a very long time, and is not gender specific.
Maybe something like “xe” will end up as common usage, and I’m fine with that, too. Being old, it would certainly take me more time and effort to adopt that than younger people would have to expend, and I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.
A teacher gets to know their students and will use nicknames like Bill and Jim in place of. William and James on request. Any teacher who doesn’t do that is an asshole who shouldn’t be teaching kids.
This teacher lost their job because they continued to refuse to use the child’s preferred name and tried to hide behind bigotry as a justification.
No part of Christianity says anything about names.
Dude’s just a bigot.
Thank fuck for Janet p on the Wisconsin supreme court!
My parents told me that not wanting to use my birth name is not “honoring my mother and father”, which is what the bible says to do.
Yeah… that’s a bit of a stretch to me, but an interesting interpretation I had not imagined. Good to have some insight in to how others think. Thanks for sharing that.
I agree it’s a stretch, because as an adult I’m not subject to their demands. And I don’t follow their dumb religion anyways so why would it even matter to me, lol.
And I hope when people marry, they don’t take the husbands name as a family name… I mean that’s the same concept and not honoring the parents of the wife. I think if you believe in that, everyone absolutely also needs to stick with their maiden name.
Not taking his name in vain includes claiming to be a person of God but acting otherwise
This is not uplifting. This is a lose-lose as it’s the type of case that this particular Supreme Court loves to add to their docket.
Eventually, SCOTUS will either rule that this does in fact violate his religious rights, or they will make a ruling siding with the school district that destroys part of the civil rights act, which is cited all throughout his filing:
"…repeatedly cites the 1964 Civil Rights Act and its Title VII section prohibiting workplace discrimination”
Most teachers will get really mad if their students casually call them by their first name.
My civics teacher’s wife called one time during class and it went to the answering machine, “Hi Ernie”, whole class bursts into laughter. Def called him Ernie a few times.
Fuck that guy.
See ya
Maybe we should check to see what that VP candidate
James Donald Bowman,James David Hamel,J. D. Hamel,J. D. Vance,JD Vance has to say about this.And you just know this ass hole is going to vote for him
