If you asked me like 4-8 years ago, I felt kind of neutral about things. Now I don’t feel an ounce bit patriotic or proud enough to even state that I’m an American.
Now, when I see an American flag around, I see it as a symbol of fascism, anti-intelluctialism, neo-nazism, and late-stage capitalism amongst other things. If there’s an American flag flying on a car, I can totally see that person possessing at least one of those qualities.
I suppose it’s good to be self aware and not blindly feel patriotic and ignoring that your country needs improvement.
I don’t know what I’m expecting in the comments here but just thought I would get this off my chest.
Aw, you’re turning English.
The St George Cross flag basically gets trotted out for football and racism. That’s it.
If I see one on somebody’s house and it’s not Euros or World Cup season, then I automatically assume they’re seething because they heard somebody have a phone conversation in a foreign language on the bus three weeks ago and that they should bring back smoking in pubs.
You’re in good company. Germans have a similar relationship with their flag.
I haven’t been proud to be an American in a long time. We were looking for a house, now we’re debating if leaving is safer.
This country is doomed, and everyone who voted Trump deserves to burn in the fires they helped create. Fuck em, I have literally no sympathy left.
I have always had that feeling living in a fascist third world country (Turkey) welcome to the club
Not from the US but when I see my country’s flag I don’t really feel anything. In theory I’ve got two flags, both the Scottish one and the Union Jack but they both elicit the same lack of reaction. Countries are just social and geographical facts. Getting angry or elated at the sight of a flag is a bit like having an emotional reaction to the moon; I suppose it’s possible in some circumstances but most of the time it’s just there and you shrug.
Ok but the cool thing about the white saltire on blue background is you get your flag in the sky whenever two planes leave a trail at the right angle.
I don’t think you’re wrong at all.
Personally, I don’t hate the flag because for me it represents ideals that should be for everyone and that I should be fighting oppression of those against the dream. I have a very Captain America-esque view.
What I cringe and have disgust with are the citizens that want to tear down these just ideals or misrepresent and distort what we should be.
“Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel” - I think Samuel Johnson’s original meaning, of complaining about “false” patriots, strongly applies to your distaste for the flag. The idiots we see proudly waving their country flags (in Brazil, that’d be the bozonaristas) are using them as a cover for their prejudices and stupidity. They wouldn’t be able to name a single thing they like about the country they love.
Nope, same thing happened to me in Canada after the clown convoy. Canada Day was never the same nor celebrated since
I may have a chance to travel to Europe for the first time in my life, and I’m worried that the Ugly American stereotype will be factored in to my reception. Probably won’t go until things calm down here/the nukes fly.
We (or at least loads of us) understand that while your government is deplorable, a lot of ordinary Americans are not. I guess it would also depend on where you go and how. If you’re decked out in TRUMP/MAGA-clothes, then I suppose you might meet quite a few people who will instantly want nothing to do with you. But if you’re a normal person, you most likely won’t have any issues, aside from questions about U.S. issues.
Just come over. We won’t bite. Don’t put off your plans because of this. Enjoy yourself and walk around in a sane country for a while. ;)
We traveled to Spain while wearing a Fuck Trump button in 2018 (Yes cringe i know) . You wouldn’t believe the amount of love and laughs we got. Very nice place btw.
Definitely go if you can. I’ve never experienced any sort of discrimination based on my American nationality in Europe. In general, I think it’s assumed that if you’re willing to travel and are respectful of the local culture you aren’t one of the bad ones. You might get a few questions about your experiences or feelings about the current situation, but that’s the most I’ve seen.
That said, some cities have recently become pretty anti-tourism in general, especially in Spain and Italy from what I’ve heard. But this isn’t against Americans, it’s against all tourists driving up housing prices.
Thanks! That is good to know.
Do USian school children still talk to that bit of fabric every morning - or is that a myth? From an outsider’s perspective I always put the US just below, uh, post-Weimar republic Germany in the excessive flag club chart placings. Always seemed excessively jingoistic.
Best of luck with your country…
I’ll tell this story as often as it’s relevant - I was made to recite the pledge of alliegance in school at 5 years old. I wasn’t a citizen, I should have had no reason to swear fealty, and our family was denied green cards, so the allegiance was not reciprocated.
Kind of dodged a bullet if I’m honest, but still, I remember it verbatim to this day, because I was indoctrinated when I was too small and naive to know any better. Not reciting it was not an option I was presented with. I don’t think anybody in charge would’ve thought twice about it either.
Yes it still goes on. I live in a very liberal city with a ton of diversity bordering Chicago and our schools still do it here. However, they don’t care if you participate or not - that is your personal choice.
I have been substitute teaching and I’ve noticed that not many kids recite it. They just listen to it being recited over the morning announcements.
No. I saw a lady driving with two USA flags on the sides of her car yesterday. I assume this is her alternative to having a Trump sticker, since that shit would likely engender a negative response in the Bay Area (specifically Oakland / Berkeley). She just looked dumb as fuck. I was embarrassed for her.
Don’t be ashamed to be ashamed of your country. If you’re also a USA citizen, we have a lot to be ashamed about. But also don’t give up. Fight back. Don’t let them slow-roll to victory by causing us to go numb.
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No, you’re right to feel that way. While most Americans aren’t terrible people, enough of us are that we allowed fascism to take over and we will have to carry that shame with us for the rest of our lives. It Happened Here.
No, you’re right to feel that way.
Agree.
While most Americans aren’t terrible people,
Hard disagree.
enough of us are that we allowed fascism to take over and we will have to carry that shame with us for the rest of our lives. It Happened Here.
Well…yeah. That’s a symptom of the problem which is why I had to hard disagree with you.
However you feel is not “wrong”, and in this case pretty understandable.
Here in Australia I don’t have a problem with the flag itself, but there seems to be a strong correlation with people putting flags on their cars and being racist assholes.
I was gonna say the same thing. The members of my family that wave that fucking flag also have the most reprehensible boot-licking attitude.
I hate the goddamn thing. Atrocities of every kind have been committed under it, we’re just a little more sheltered from it, because its part in the global imperial project is smaller, and it gets less coverage than the US’s blaring parade of shame.
