The main thing I’m trying to say is these people historically were blue
How do you know that? What are you basing that off of?
I mean, I have an example of what you’re talking about but its the only thing I can think of where I’m like, yeah I know for sure that was the case. And only feel comfortable saying that because there is recorded evidence of someone stating that they use to be a democratic, and then switched to vote for Bush who ran as a republican.
And as for the alt right stuff - I only feel comfortable saying what I said about that because I spent several years of my early 20’s being really misguided and I was knee deep in that shit.
Trump talked about running for president since like the 90’s so that was already out there as information. The alt right groups were looking for a “new hitler” as they put it and eventually pushed for Trump. They did this through social engineering. Over the course of several years.
People laugh when I talk about this but it is a real thing that happened.
In your perspective, you’re witnessing the disintegration of America.
It’s been disintegrating for awhile now.
You can’t just chalk this all up to gullibility.
I’m not. Both things are at play here.
If people were having happy stable lives where their needs were being met financially and emotionally, they wouldn’t vote for these proto-fascists
Again. How do you meet the needs of people who are filled with hatred? I’m genuinely asking since you keep bringing this up.
Funny, my grandfathers used to kill Nazis.
You know how “If you see someone stealing food, no you didn’t”?
If you’re on a jury where the defendant is accused of killing a Nazi, not guilty. Jury nullification.
I hadn’t heard that first one before, but ok, sure.
Well, now you know. If you see anyone shoplifting food, no you didn’t
I agree with that adage, but, as I live in America, if I see someone stealing anything, no I didn’t because I don’t want to get shot.
What about stealing baby food to resell in China?
I know it’s not your intent but that was a Tucker Carlson response if there ever was one. It’s no wonder you’re getting dragged
Are you going to stop the person and ask that? Because there’s no way you’d know. It’s far better to just let a potential parent get food for their kids
I’m not going to ask because I don’t give a shit about a company losing profits.
Maybe I’m slow but what exactly is your point then?
This is where I think Islam in theory has it right. Stealing is wrong unless it is a necessity. If you get caught stealing food the crime is the store owner not giving the hungry person food not the hungry person taking the food they needed.
Some family traditions should be upheld.
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We didn’t go far enough the first time and look where that got us. Let’s do.it right this time
Sure; in one view, the free folk should have kept going on past Berlin after liberating Germany from Hitler … and liberated Poland, Ukraine, and Russia from Stalin’s rapists. Then maybe Russians wouldn’t still be getting murdered by their government today.
However, the genocidal rape-murder-fanatics who called themselves Nazis were a clearer target than the genocidal rape-murder-fanatics who (falsely) called themselves Marxists.
The solution would have been not placing “former” Nazis in positions of power after the war.
That would be good too, yeah.
Notably, it woulda been nice if the occupying powers had focused on permanently removing the “former” Nazis rather than starving the German populace as collective punishment.
That’s not how we do things here. We generally use crippling sanctions that punish people, mostly poor people , while also trying to find a back room deal or overthrow legally elected governments.
“free folk” is a weird way to describe the US/UK/etc., given what civil rights in those places were like at the time, and the fact that the US now has the highest incarceration rate of anywhere in the world (and a prison system that kills a higher percentage of prisoners than the gulags in the USSR did).
what’s your evidence that
a) the US got involved in the second world war for any reason other than to fight communism (US businesses continued to trade with the Nazi regime right until the end of the war),
b) that the US had any capacity to push further east than they did,
c) that anyone in the USSR wanted their “liberation” (polls in all of the places you mentioned had huge support for the USSR all the way to its dissolution, and even the CIA admits that calling Stalin a “dictator” was misleading propaganda
a) the US got involved in the second world war for any reason other than to fight communism
Lmao what
The US got involved because Japan attacked the US. At no point in WW2 did the US every fight against communists. They allied with communists - and they literally referred to themselves as the Allies
So you think the USA joined to…fight communists?
Im not sure how to regard any of your claims considering the colossal stupidity of the first point.
HOLY SHIT YOU HAVE BEEN BASHING ME FOR SOMETHING SOMEONE ELSE SAID
Holy shit I have. Really sorry for calling you that stupid. I guess im the stupid one. .
??? The USA could of absolutely kept pushing east but didn’t because it still had all of its forces divided on 2 fronts. If you count just the European theatre, yeah Russia had more tanks and men but they were also being supplied by the Americans. Americans stop supplying war material and SU has to scramble to fill the voids ala now in Ukraine “Special Operation” war. Would it have been a slam dunk easy victory? Absolutely not, but considering the state of everyone’s shit like factories, useable materials, and population loss, America comes out on top every time. If America had attacked the Russians afterwards there is a real possibility the Soviet Union collapses just under its own population drain. By the end of the war SU lost an estimated 8-10 million soldiers and an estimated 24 million civilians. Not to mention having their future soldiers grow up on malnutrition diets. America had also been full steam ahead war manufacturing shit for 5+ years at that point while the SU barely got its factories back up in 42/43 from the initial Nazi invasion.
I’d love to see your evidence though that American Companies kept trading with Germany after the attack at pearl harbor and the subsequent declaration of war by Germany in 1941.
As to the ability to push east, don’t forget we were also pushing west, and why we decided to stop. If we hadn’t, allied forces surely could have pushed until they met.
They did push until they met.
You should take after him
It may be time to learn the family trade
And we gave he and his friends parades for doing so
Not to be a grammar Nazi but we gave him and his friends parades for doing so
Du nicht einen?
You’re a big guy
we really need to become intolerant of intolerance in this country
This is Florida. I’m surprised no one has shot them or run them over already. No one likes Nazis
I don’t know that the state that elected Ron DeSantis as their governor is especially intolerant of Nazis.
He barely won. 8 million odd votes cast, he won by 30,000. Had to suppress votes and lie constantly to do it.
DeSantis won in 2022 with 1.5 million more votes than his opponent. You are thinking of his 2018 campaign which was close
Correct.
Well no one in Florida seems to be stopping them so maybe Floridians do like Nazis? I mean they elected Ron DeSantis…
Florida is a bastion of progressive thought…(suppression).
Except about 30% of the US. They don’t like Nazis by name, but they sure are buddy buddy with them
spoiler alert: the people who would shoot and run people over are also right wing extremists. Same reason no cops showed up to stop these Nazi’s, it’s the same people.
The only thing a tolerant society can’t tolerate is intolerance. Nazis have no place on American land and either need to be driven from it or buried in it.
Tolerance is an agreement, not a suicide pact. If someone refuses to abide by the terms of tolerance, then they have no right to be protected by it.
If someone refuses to abide by the terms of tolerance, then they have no right to be protected by it.
Yes. Although it’s correct to point to Popper’s paradox of tolerance, it’s better to regard tolerance to be the terms of the contract that provides your rights and protections. Oh, you want to void someone’s rights? Don’t expect the protections of the contract if you’re in breach of its terms.
This (treat it like a contract, or like a treaty) doesn’t just avoid the mind-boggling that some people experience trying to get their heads around a paradox, it provides tools by which to restore a broken peace.
Given that the paradox of tolerance is given by a tolerant society, this seems like a more fair argument as it broadens the actions possible to the legal system.
However, certain crimes and repeat offenses should hold greater punishments (or initially Carey a heavy price) as these things threaten Liberal society as much as an enemy.
What does greater punishment have to do with a threat to society?
Harsh penal systems cause more crime.
I agree with the sentiment, but the paradox of freedom is explained by Karl Popper much better than I could do it:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
If you don’t have patience, I will summarize the excerpt from the wiki value:
Do not suppress intolerance if they’re willing to debate. Logically contradict and debase them instead. Only persue suppression if they ignore logic and use force as an argument.
Only persue suppression if they ignore logic and use force as an argument.
Is that not exactly where we are right now?
Yes, which goes back to me agreeing with graniteM.
Tal with them.
Groups like that typically have a core with a number of insane leaders they just have to be locked up, key thrown away, but most of the people around it are just… well, lost, really. These are people that really feel they’re thr good guy, trying to protect from what they’ve been taught is evil.
Show then they’re wrong. Show them that the evil doesn’t really exist but in their heads. You can talk with them, at least TRY to reason with them…
You can’t use reason to convince someone out of a position they didn’t reason their way into… I agree that should still be the first step, but I wouldn’t expect it to work for the majority of them. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch to overcome, especially if they aren’t willing to accept the possibility they might be wrong.
What’s the alternative?
Jail them? Forever? If not, one day they’ll be free and angrier than ever.
Deport them? Where?
Ignore them? That doesn’t sound like a good idea either
The only real solution I see is reason with them. It’ll be hard, it’ll be stupid, bit I don’t see ma y other solutions
You know, I’m generally willing to let everyone share their opinions even if they’re awful, but I feel like if you’re proudly waving a nazi flag you should be shot in the face. Stop wasting oxygen on those scum.
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Not just Nazis. All authoritarians. Your last two sentences could just as easily be about Republicans and “conservatives”.
All authoritarians includes lots of communists here.
Definitely. Not all at least. But way too many to be sure.
I feel the same way. I’m tolerant of many different opinions. Basically, as long as you’re not hurting yourself or other people, go for it.
But when someone calls for the death of someone else, I draw the line. I’m Jewish and, sadly, dealt with Nazis before. Back in high school (about 30 years ago), I started talking with a kid. This kid (unbeknownst to me when we started talking) worshipped Hitler. He told me outright “the only thing Hitler did wrong was not finishing the job.” Yes, the kid knew I’m Jewish and no he wasn’t "just being edgy.
Now, I’ve always been an easy going person. I’m not prone to violence at all. However, when this kid essentially told me that my family and I should be killed, I lost it. A friend of mine had to hold me back because I was going to punch Nazi kid in his face.
Unfortunately, these people fell comfortable being open about their Nazi views. That’s because the Republicans have decided to drop all dogwhistles and fully support the bigots of the country in their goal of oppressing anyone even slightly different.
I know what you mean, but Nazi’s are never allowed to have a voice again. Ever!
Their whole philosophy is one of hatred and genocide. Never again should we allow them to have a place in our society.
Exactly. We already fought this war. Anyone proud of being a nazi deserves the same fate.
See a nazi, punch a nazi
Culture Warlords: My Journey Into the Dark Web of White Supremacy
Talia Lavin is every skinhead’s worst nightmare: a loud and unapologetic Jewish woman, acerbic, smart, and profoundly antiracist, with the investigative chops to expose the tactics and ideologies of online hatemongers. Culture Warlords is the story of how Lavin, a frequent target of extremist trolls (including those at Fox News), dove into a byzantine online culture of hate and learned the intricacies of how white supremacy proliferates online.
I had already purchased this book after hearing a podcast interview. Then, I heard another interview where Talia stood her ground against some kinda shitty interview tactics by Brianna Grey Joy and realized, oh, I have that book, and I immediately started reading it. It was excellent.
Shitty podcast interview (which is excellent because of Talia and shitty because of Brianna)
here(I tried to find a link to the audio podcast, but it was a pita. You can see part of it on a YouTube link or look for the true audio from Sept 2021 by loading the RSS of the Bad Faith podcast.).I won’t thump my chest. I fear violence. But violence is called for and justified regarding these pieces of shit. I’m posting this twice because I want it to be in the main thread and because I’m responding to the Talia-method: see => punch
I’d like to say I’m surprised that Grey asked a Jewish woman if she learned anything useful for building coalitions with white supremacists and Nazis… but I’m not. A certain section of the terminally online left seems convinced that all bigotry and supremacy is “economic anxiety”, and if you propose good economic policies then Nazis will be cured.
Come at me people but I think if you are a neonazi then life in prison would suit you well.
Oh lord. “The order of the black sun”, “the hammer”, “blood tribe”… it’s all edgy manchildren, ain’t it?
Perhaps something ought to be done while they’re gathered in the same place?
I find it so weird that fascists pick such obvious comic book villain names for their groups.
Like, they have to know.
They do, but their minds are so stunted they think it’s cool.
They like to pretend they’re tough. They’re really into their LARP.
Who else would it be?
Why are they even wearing full face masks?
They fear the consequences of their actions.
Which means they know what they’re doing is wrong.
Incorrect. They know their actions will cause them backlash, but this is born out of fanaticism. Their moral compass is already skewed so much that instead of believing is wrong, they believe they would be persecuted for doing the right thing.
Significantly fucked up people.
I thought they can’t breathe tho.
That’s only if you wear a mask to prevent a deadly viral infection from spreading. Apparently, masks are perfectly safe if you’re using them to prevent yourself from being identified when you publicly proclaim your extreme bigotry.
Because they’re cowards.
They aren’t vaccinated
And what to be responsible fellow citizens and set a good example for the rest of us
Because it is staged and paid for.
Who benefits from US delving into civil unrest and/or war?
This is really fucked up. These people’s grandparents will be rolling in their graves, wanting to strangle their descendants.
Hopefully they get that chance soon
In the afterlife? Yes.
Not all.
There was a very real Nazi movement in the states during the lead up to WW2. If you want something chilling watch this clip: https://youtu.be/O9-ljQyruKw?si=DqNbFfD__nAmupCY
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/O9-ljQyruKw?si=DqNbFfD__nAmupCY
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Yup. Fair enough. They should’ve been deported and de-citizen-ated.
Take off the masks, cowards.
Nobody said that during BLM… at least they’re not rioting and looting stores. As you can probably tell, fuck burgers.
So Nazis are good because they don’t loot?
They haven’t gotten to looting yet.
Never said that. I just said don’t loot/riot if you’re going to protest. Really does the opposite for whatever movement you’re trying to push.
You mean what the vast, vast majority of BLM protesters didn’t do?
Maybe don’t focus on what the media chose to show you with camera angles and editing.
Maybe we aren’t in literally the height of COVID right now, like we were then.
Doesn’t matter what the set and setting is for this scenario. Learn to protest peacefully and not loot stores/riot. As a white man with a black brother, both these movements suck and fail miserably to make any real impact.
As a white man with a Yeti/dragon half brother I think you are lying about your family for effect.
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If only everyone protested in a way that doesn’t upset anyone or bring any sort of recognition to the sentiment of the victims
“Just, like, get every single member of your protest to behave. Otherwise, I’m going to dismiss your entire movement.”
What about when Martin Luther King created his movement? That’s just dumb to say man.
What do you have against burgers?
Boy, don’t even get me started.
They are still subscribing to Nizism, one of the only pure evil ideologies
What have the good people of Niza, Croatia ever done to you?
BLM didnt riot and liot enough. There are still fascist bootlickers in America
Pussy ass bitches have to wear masks. We should just follow them home and post their addresses
I’d like to think that when people in the center and on the left look at stories like this they realize how little our differences are compared to the lunatics on the right. I’d love to see liberals and centrisfs finally fall in-line and combine to fight these fascist fucks, but then I wake up and realize it will never happen.
the american liberals are mostly conservatives by european standards and the centrists are right wing populists. Then you got the fascists, that are the republican party nowadays.
Noone of them will see a risk in the rise of fascist violence, until it will be their family that will be murdered.
Why don’t people realize we aren’t kidding around? The GOP is being lead by fascists. It’s going to be 10 years from now and people are going to say, “if we only knew!”
the american liberals are mostly conservatives by european standards
Where does this fall on the spectrum by European standards?
Conservatives by European standards have nothing in common with liberals in the US unless you are solely talking about, like, Norway.
Spain, Italy, Hungary, Turkey, Germany, France and more all have Conservative parties that are vastly different from and opposed to American liberals.
The centrists are the liberals. The Rep party and most “centrists” are now fascist and fascist-tolerating. There are many people who aren’t outwardly bigoted or authoritarian and only care about a few issues such as abortion (religious people), guns (rural people), or taxes (higher income people). These people will vote on these issues and tolerate any amount of bigotry and fascism as long as they don’t think it will affect them.
Care to point out any lib fascists?
Bill Clinton Signer of the pro-fascism Telecommunications Act.
Joe Biden Promoter of expanded militarist police state and private prison industry
You literally just slapped “pro-fascist” on the first one with 0 actual evidence
#2 is a grey point that of course can be argued any which way. (Classic)
You’d think if this was a strong point you’d have some better examples :)
Pro-fascist: eliminated FCC regulation for airwaves to work for the public good and allowed fascist talk shows to buy and control all the stations they could afford…which was all of them.
Pro-fascist
The mental gymnastics lmfao.
Taking away the ability of the government to control a public option = fascism because people made money off it.
The word you’re looking for is capitalist pig and I agree with you.
Except the stated point was “there needs to be more ‘conservative voices’, so we will allow corporations to buy all the airwaves they can stand.” As they did so they kicked off non-fascist shows or moved them to dead time slots. The reason that Air America doesnt exist is because they were blocked from broadcast access.
What shows?
Who wanted more conservative voices? Why is that fascist?
Why is (yet again) capitalism being equated directly to fascism.
I just think you like saying that word tbh. May I ask what age demographic you’re in by chance?
Air America doesn’t exist because they went bankrupt due to mismanagement.
I have ranted about this for years- it’s how trump was created- but someone finally put it together:
Conservative talk radio predates Clinton by over 2 decades, and is what led to the rise in Trumpism.
So you have no clue what fascism is on any kind of level then as neither example makes any sense
Not only that, but liberals and centrists will staunchly defend the Nazis against you. Free soeech is worth killing you for, as well as removing your human rights
I got permabanned from Reddit for saying the only good nazi is a dead nazi.
This take holds no water
Quite a lot of “marxists” here seem to back Russia so Im not sure it us just the liberals backing nazis.
i have never encountered a pro-Russian leftist or liberal. I think you may be getting played by bots
i have never encountered a pro-Russian leftist or liberal. I think you may be getting played by bots
i have never encountered a pro-Russian leftist or liberal. I think you may be getting played by bots
Fucking filthy cunts the lot of them.
These people are fucking delusional and a blight on humanity.
These cunts have no idea what they’re playing with. They should visit WWII memorials or concentration camps. What a sad, sad sight
Yeah. I think treating them the way nazis did for a few months would change them. And if they die suring it then they die.
Is this a new, new wave?
It’s the old new wave with a fresh coat of paint.
